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There are standard correct pronunciations... The Voice of Lews Therin - 25/04/2004 11:31:13 PM

I have several. My native accent is what's called "Modified RP" – very very few people speak true Received Pronunciation anymore.
I believe that. By the way, have you been following what's been happening with the BBC News's English? I read some articles about it but had personally noticed it sounded almost Irish some time before that.

After five years of school in Scotland, though, I have a second accent which sometimes surfaces.
That was a very detailed and interesting explanation.

No matter which of those I'm speaking in, my medial and final /t/s frequently become glottal stops.
That's a south English phenomenon, isn't it?

I share your exasperation for people who claim not to have an accent: unless they are mute, this is untrue, and they should know it.
None of them have been mute...

I really don't understand. What on earth do you mean by "mispronunciation"? The example you gave is precisely "simple variant pronunciation" – I pronounce "Korea" and "career" in exactly the same way (except when in Scotland): [k@rI@]. Why is this a "mispronunciation"? I also pronounce "shore", "Shaw" and "sure" in exactly the same way (again, except when in Scotland). You imply some standard of "correct" pronunciation: what is it? And yet at the same time, you allow for "simple variant pronunciation" as something valid. This question makes nonsense to me – I'd be very glad if you could explain.
The phenomenon of which I speak is present in the Bostonian accent of American English. Standard correct pronunciation of career is /ka-ri:-uhr/ (with uh for schwa) and for Korea it is /ka-ri:-uh/ - in both cases, with stress on the ri: . Bostonians drop the postvocalic final r, so career becomes /ka-ri:-uh/ . HOWEVER, they also add a non-existant final -r to words ending in -a. Thus, Korea becomes /ka-ri:-uhr/ . When someone pronounces word A as the standard word B pronunciation, and word B as the standard word A pronunciation, I consider that the dialect mispronounces words.

Unfortunately, the only language I can speak to a reasonable degree of fluency is French (and it's been going downhill since I left my bilingual Prep School ). I've been told I can fool French people for a little bit; but once the conversation gets going properly, they'll notice I'm not a native. If I have any accent in French other than a mild (or otherwise) English one, it would probably be that of very rich Parisians, as that's what most of the children I learnt French from at the said school were. One thing I know I do which is probably unique to that dialect/sociolect is add a hint of a fricative to the end of words that end in /i/. So, for example, the word "mie" will be pronounced [miç].

My accent recognition in French is not good; I simply haven't been exposed to different accents enough. The best I can do is to distinguish a very obvious Southern accent from what I would consider "normal" French speech, and also (if I'm lucky) a Belgian accent. I also remember having a French Listening practice tape with Amiens accents on it: they sound very strange! I want to hear a proper French-Canadian accent sometime, to see what it sounds like and whether I can understand it.

Only by inverse snobs – when I come back from Cambridge I sound pretty "posh" (although I think I do anyway ).

Scottish (does that count as foreign?); Irish (but not Belfast so much – I'm talking real Irish); Greek (Greek girls are amazing: even when they're so pretty that you know they have to be getting regular sex, they still sound really sweet and innocent!); Generic American (as seen on TV) excluding Southern (sorry Texans – nothing personal! I think I might be being influenced by American prejudices – there's a scary thought!).

Any really thick foreign accent will do that; I don't really think any one is worse than another, if the strength is equivalent.

Thanks – it was interesting, especially reading some of the others' responses.

One other note: when I was in Connecticut on a school trip, someone noticed that my accent wasn't Scottish (it was for most of the trip, due to the company I was in, but I must have gone back to English when talking to this lady) and asked where I was from. It turned out she'd guessed that I was from Kent, and probably from Canterbury, before I told her, but she hadn't said so until I confirmed it. I was quite astonished. She had a son-in-law that was from Canterbury, but still, it's bloody impressive!

Yours, Tim .


Annoying wotmaniacs for 10 years.

Oh, I don't have time for this. I have to go and buy a single piece of fruit with a coupon and then return it, making people wait behind me while I complain. - Prof. Farnsworth

The Voice of Lews Therin

Find out what WOT really means...




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Accents - 24/04/2004 11:55:56 PM 554 Views
OoooO - 25/04/2004 12:01:47 AM 56 Views
People looked down on an English accent? - 25/04/2004 12:05:35 AM 1 Views
yeah - 25/04/2004 12:09:08 AM 1 Views
You left out a question, Tom - 25/04/2004 12:15:52 AM 46 Views
! - 25/04/2004 12:22:15 AM 30 Views
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interesting - 25/04/2004 01:07:47 AM 38 Views
oooh, nice survey - 25/04/2004 01:28:27 AM 30 Views
interesting survey. I'll give it a go. - 25/04/2004 01:30:49 AM 42 Views
Polyglot - 25/04/2004 01:33:28 AM 24 Views
Mmmm.... accents.... *drools* - 25/04/2004 01:40:10 AM 24 Views
hmm....I'm not familiar with Dutch accents. - 25/04/2004 01:42:35 AM 1 Views
Re: hmm....I'm not familiar with Dutch accents. - 25/04/2004 02:00:40 AM 1 Views
Ah, accents. - 25/04/2004 03:35:14 AM 22 Views
Hmmm... - 25/04/2004 05:35:38 AM 18 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 06:15:47 AM 18 Views
I'll give it a try! - 25/04/2004 06:26:19 AM 21 Views
Re: yeah - 25/04/2004 06:26:25 AM 1 Views
Re: I'll give it a try! - 25/04/2004 06:36:43 AM 1 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 07:08:26 AM 32 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 07:30:06 AM 18 Views
- 25/04/2004 07:57:10 AM 25 Views
so perhaps you would know what I meant If I said... - 25/04/2004 08:00:27 AM 1 Views
ha ha *wikedly grins* *NM* - 25/04/2004 08:24:56 AM 1 Views
Cute. - 25/04/2004 08:29:21 AM 18 Views
Re: so perhaps you would know what I meant If I said... - 25/04/2004 08:32:03 AM 1 Views
Just to add - 25/04/2004 08:40:00 AM 14 Views
Language nerds all over this place - 25/04/2004 09:16:05 AM 33 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 09:42:36 AM 20 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 09:43:02 AM 16 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 10:13:14 AM 14 Views
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I stayed with germans for 2 years - 25/04/2004 10:41:25 AM 1 Views
So... - 25/04/2004 10:57:28 AM 1 Views
Accents make life interesting. - 25/04/2004 11:12:53 AM 16 Views
good survey, Thomas. - 25/04/2004 11:54:30 AM 28 Views
Good questions. - 25/04/2004 12:30:49 PM 28 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 12:40:48 PM 16 Views
Maybeeee it's because i'm a londonerrrrr... - 25/04/2004 12:57:30 PM 20 Views
I don't have an accent - 25/04/2004 01:21:01 PM 20 Views
Heh! - 25/04/2004 01:25:36 PM 1 Views
LOL, thanks... - 25/04/2004 01:46:09 PM 1 Views
well... - 25/04/2004 01:47:41 PM 1 Views
Welll - 25/04/2004 04:10:29 PM 9 Views
I love accents - 25/04/2004 04:35:36 PM 13 Views
Re: Accents - 25/04/2004 05:10:43 PM 17 Views
Re: I love accents - 25/04/2004 05:16:36 PM 1 Views
Aww . . . - 25/04/2004 05:20:47 PM 1 Views
Re: I love accents - 25/04/2004 05:29:36 PM 1 Views
Hanoi, ein Schwabe - 25/04/2004 05:33:12 PM 1 Views
Ha freilich! - 25/04/2004 06:01:12 PM 1 Views
lol - 25/04/2004 07:19:17 PM 1 Views
Àcçéntš - 25/04/2004 07:29:33 PM 32 Views
*doesn't have an accent* *NM* - 25/04/2004 07:39:42 PM 7 Views
Re: Àcçéntš - 25/04/2004 07:55:21 PM 1 Views
'ello evvvvrey bode-y - 25/04/2004 08:04:47 PM 13 Views
*giggles* - 25/04/2004 08:12:52 PM 1 Views
I still don't know what a Washington accent sounds like... - 25/04/2004 08:14:33 PM 1 Views
I have a localized Mexican accent when speaking Spanish... - 25/04/2004 09:17:13 PM 8 Views
Re: yeah - 25/04/2004 09:35:38 PM 1 Views
Theh's nothing wrong with saying "wicked" - 25/04/2004 09:49:40 PM 1 Views
Hehehe - 25/04/2004 09:52:07 PM 1 Views
The BBC has been invaded by bizarre accents - 25/04/2004 09:54:57 PM 1 Views
You were mistaken for a "pasty-faced pommy git" ? - 25/04/2004 09:56:38 PM 1 Views
Interesting... - 25/04/2004 10:00:18 PM 1 Views
The NY ones sound whiney? - 25/04/2004 10:04:45 PM 1 Views
What are the idiosyncracies? - 25/04/2004 10:06:17 PM 1 Views
Canadian accents can be really funny - 25/04/2004 10:08:51 PM 1 Views
Are you by any chance from Adelaide? - 25/04/2004 10:10:53 PM 1 Views
So Stockholm isn't "proper Swedish" ? - 25/04/2004 10:14:18 PM 1 Views
Re: The BBC has been invaded by bizarre accents - 25/04/2004 10:19:01 PM 1 Views
There's no problem with Korea and career being homophones - 25/04/2004 10:19:48 PM 1 Views
Russian is highly uniform, though - 25/04/2004 10:25:44 PM 1 Views
I'm pretty sure it's from "oh God" - 25/04/2004 10:30:29 PM 1 Views
Reminds me of "Trainspotting" - 25/04/2004 10:33:23 PM 1 Views
Is that Cajun or not? - 25/04/2004 10:35:51 PM 1 Views
You never heard "pigeon" ? - 25/04/2004 10:39:35 PM 1 Views
Isn't Swedish a lot like German? - 25/04/2004 10:42:03 PM 1 Views
Ah...I take it you're dating ironclad - 25/04/2004 10:43:58 PM 1 Views
People vary between French and Japanese?!?! - 25/04/2004 10:46:53 PM 1 Views
Nah, I'm a Brisbane girl. - 25/04/2004 10:47:16 PM 1 Views
Ah...mittens with a glottalized t - 25/04/2004 10:49:34 PM 1 Views
Yes, and, in your case, apparently confusing as well - 25/04/2004 10:53:08 PM 1 Views
Re: What are the idiosyncracies? - 25/04/2004 10:54:09 PM 1 Views
valid point - 25/04/2004 10:54:17 PM 1 Views
You're just weird, Gena - 25/04/2004 10:57:27 PM 1 Views
When you say "Moscow-Brooklyn" .... - 25/04/2004 11:00:14 PM 1 Views
What words? - 25/04/2004 11:03:16 PM 1 Views
But most Americans say neither soda, nor pop - 25/04/2004 11:06:05 PM 1 Views
Ah, yes, the Guy Ritchie movies - 25/04/2004 11:08:41 PM 1 Views
Excellent answer to the fifth question - 25/04/2004 11:10:53 PM 1 Views
Border regions between dialects sound difficult sometimes - 25/04/2004 11:13:15 PM 1 Views
How does NW American differ from Midwest American? - 25/04/2004 11:15:39 PM 1 Views
So in the Swabian accent there is no difference between s and ss? - 25/04/2004 11:20:09 PM 1 Views
There are standard correct pronunciations... - 25/04/2004 11:31:13 PM 1 Views
Sure.... *NM* - 25/04/2004 11:31:54 PM 1 Views
But how do you say them? - 25/04/2004 11:34:12 PM 1 Views
Ohioan is general Midwest, isn't it? - 25/04/2004 11:36:09 PM 1 Views
Re: How does NW American differ from Midwest American? - 25/04/2004 11:49:20 PM 1 Views
Re: I still don't know what a Washington accent sounds like... - 26/04/2004 12:07:16 AM 1 Views
- 26/04/2004 12:51:22 AM 1 Views
Da. I admit it. - 26/04/2004 01:03:21 AM 1 Views
My Accent: So. Cali beach bum meets Texan cowgirl - 26/04/2004 02:22:00 AM 8 Views
Re: So in the Swabian accent there is no difference between s and ss? - 26/04/2004 02:33:52 AM 1 Views
Re: Interesting... - 26/04/2004 03:42:01 AM 1 Views
Re: I'm pretty sure it's from "oh God" - 26/04/2004 04:02:54 AM 1 Views
There is no "standard" swedish really - 26/04/2004 04:32:09 AM 1 Views
Not really... there are big similarities, of course... - 26/04/2004 04:42:45 AM 1 Views
ahem... - 26/04/2004 04:56:22 AM 1 Views
The only sensible answer - 26/04/2004 05:56:52 AM 1 Views
Re: There's no problem with Korea and career being homophones - 26/04/2004 06:25:42 AM 1 Views
Interesting... - 26/04/2004 07:02:00 AM 10 Views
Re: Russian is highly uniform, though - 26/04/2004 08:03:01 AM 1 Views
I think you may have misunderstood the -r insertion phenomenon. - 26/04/2004 11:09:26 AM 1 Views
Re: - 26/04/2004 11:25:56 AM 1 Views
No problem - 26/04/2004 11:29:00 AM 1 Views
No, they DO pronounce Korea as "Korear" with nothing following - 26/04/2004 11:41:39 AM 1 Views
Maybe out there - 26/04/2004 11:44:24 AM 1 Views
Oh yes I am - 26/04/2004 11:45:14 AM 1 Views
Re: Reminds me of "Trainspotting" - 26/04/2004 11:46:32 AM 1 Views
Yeah i know - 26/04/2004 11:47:51 AM 1 Views
I have heard it and can back this up!!! - 26/04/2004 11:53:19 AM 1 Views
Re: What words? - 26/04/2004 12:22:47 PM 1 Views
It is not Cajun... - 26/04/2004 12:59:44 PM 1 Views
It's not spoken by anyone. - 26/04/2004 02:40:54 PM 1 Views
That's because you live in the East... - 26/04/2004 06:03:41 PM 1 Views
Aboot?! - 26/04/2004 06:06:27 PM 1 Views
hehehe - 26/04/2004 06:58:22 PM 1 Views
Probably because the real southern people who audition... - 26/04/2004 07:00:53 PM 1 Views
Liar! I do not say aboot! - 26/04/2004 07:03:11 PM 1 Views
you do say it like that! - 26/04/2004 07:04:56 PM 1 Views
fine, fine - 26/04/2004 07:07:08 PM 1 Views
No, probably because... - 26/04/2004 07:26:47 PM 1 Views
I didn't mean it like that... - 26/04/2004 08:19:25 PM 1 Views
Yes and no... - 26/04/2004 08:25:49 PM 1 Views
Umm... - 26/04/2004 09:29:59 PM 1 Views
- 26/04/2004 09:33:30 PM 1 Views
- 26/04/2004 09:36:36 PM 1 Views
lol, why is that still a surprise for people? - 26/04/2004 09:53:34 PM 1 Views
yes, you've got it - 26/04/2004 10:44:00 PM 1 Views
- 27/04/2004 04:39:59 AM 1 Views
yes, I know *points down to other post* *NM* - 27/04/2004 04:41:52 AM 1 Views
LMAO - 27/04/2004 09:45:36 AM 1 Views
*hugs* - 27/04/2004 07:11:59 PM 1 Views
Re: - 27/04/2004 07:14:59 PM 1 Views
*hugs back* - 27/04/2004 08:02:08 PM 1 Views
*blushes furiously* - 27/04/2004 08:05:09 PM 1 Views
Re: *hugs back* - 27/04/2004 10:24:58 PM 1 Views
*grins* - 27/04/2004 10:25:34 PM 1 Views
*NM* - 27/04/2004 11:33:13 PM 1 Views
- 27/04/2004 11:34:09 PM 1 Views
I don't have an obvious dialect. - 28/04/2004 04:31:59 PM 2 Views