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Re: I see logic isn't your strong point. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 08/01/2011 01:32:16 AM


The point was we already modify books to make them more accessible for people and we don't get all of this flopping and squawking. Your small minded disdain for people who read unabridged books really is beside the point. Guess what everyone doesn’t think like you do.
I have no problem with people who read unabridged books. As I pointed out in my post, I do it myself. I seldom read the other kind unless an unabridged copy is not available.

What you read in the fourth grade (from the way you act I assume that was only a few years ago) isn’t relevant since modifying the book was not to make it simpler to read.
Well, I'm not the one making the false comparison between the two. I didn't bring them up, you did.

Bullshit. Removing one word is not a punch in the face. We also modify works for content on regular basis without all the hand wringing and screams of censorship. They dub movies to make them more family friendly and retell stories to make them more acceptable for modern families. Purist may want Sleepy Beauty to end with the witch dancing in burning shoes but they tend to be purest without kids.
But that's a story, not a single author's original work. The actual story behind Sleeping Beauty is ancient and in the public domain. These comparisons have nothing to do with what is being done in this case, anyway.

They fact that you didn't learn the word until the fourth grade leads me to believe you went to a lily white school.
Yes, that's how I obtained a decent education.

If your teacher was teaching in mixed race school that already suffered from racial tensions she may not have been as brave. Some teachers might be brave enough but the majority would you have you read To Kill a Mockingbird instead. Schools have been sued over the book and that in and of it self tends to make them shy away from it.
That does not make it right. As you suggest, they can just assign a different book. As far as black students being exposed to the word, they can suck it up and deal. That's how the characters talked. That's how people used to talk. What point to hiding it from them?

They teacher is free to discuss the fact that the word was removed and why it was removed but they won't be asking a little white boy to say it out loud in a room full of black students.
Why? At worst, that could provide a teachable moment, instructing any little retards who get offended on the difference between a quotation and the actual offensive use of a term. Quite frankly, it would be a good thing if black children learned at an early age when it is and is not proper to get offended at the use of that word.

The teacher is also free to just call it n-word without saying nigger in class full of students who may be offended by the word. Try and keep in mind that unless you are black our society considers this one of the most offensive words in the language. You will get fired for saying it at work, kicked out of school for using it class and your ass kicked for saying it in front of the wrong people. It is probably the only word you can get your ass kicked just for saying it out loud.
And those people are WRONG. You do NOT change things to appease those who do violence wrongly! You especially do not do violence to the work of one of the earliest and best advocates of the equal humanity of black people, and one of the works which most advocates the same, merely to appease ignorant and wrong-minded people.

I can't think of another word that a large number of people would consider violience an acceptable response simply for saying it out loud.
Well, they're wrong, so fuck 'em.

Maybe you should stop being such a pussy little bitch who gets his panties in a wad because an offensive word was taken out of book for school children.

The stay away if offends you argument doesn't work when you are in a public school operated by public funds. Beside the argument cuts both ways. If taking the word out offends you then don't read it. If you want to read it with the word there it is available pretty much anywhere.
And you can take that position in favor of other censorship too! If the censored porn or artwork bothers you, don't look at it! That public funds argument was scoffed and dismissed when Giuliani used it on the museum that showed a gratuitously religiously offensive work of art. You're the one who doesn't understand logic with your use of that argument.

So your argument is that giving you the chance to say nigger out loud is what makes this an important book? Blanket statements are great but if you are going to make the simple minded statement that a single word that wasn't considered offensive at the time the books was written is what make it an important work you are going to need to back it up with something more. The book was considered offensive when it was written and was banded from some schools but not for use of the word nigger.
So what? They wrong to have banded it back then and are wrong now, and for the SAME reason. Your ineptitude at logic is further demonstrated by your use of a straw-man argument, and your apparent inability to understand my demonstrated example suggests that someone of your reading comprehension level should not be passing judgement on reading material.

The word slave would still give the same meaning since that is how the word is used in the book the majority of the time.
Except it's not, because he never uses it that way regarding his relationship to Jim, which was the point of the incident I cited. The word is used for black people and used by the people to verbally obfuscate the reality of the institution and denigrate blacks by using the same word for all blacks, free or slave. They don't say "his slave" they say "his nigger" and they use the word to describe characteristics of the people independent of their socio-economic status.

Must modern students would understand the term runaway slave better than the term runaway nigger since the word nigger is not a synonym for slave anymore. Can't you point to a place in the book where the word nigger cannot be replaced by the word slave without changing the meaning?
All of them! The denotation might be the same, but the connotation of the words is entirely different, which is why Samuel Clemmens, a man of vastly superior intellect to you or writing talent to anyone on this site, used the one and not the other. He was not using "nigger" because that was how he talked (in fact, in a footnote in Tom Sawyer, one of the few points of author intrusion in either books, he uses the term 'slave' to explain a point of usage, to show that the characters are using a naming convention in a different manner for a dog than for a slave), he was using it to demonstrate how the characters of that time and place talked and thought.

The word nigger has more impact true but it also has much more impact now then when the book was written so time has already changed the meaning of the book.

Let grownups learn how to deal with the word then we can let kids worry about it.
Teach the kids that it's not something to shy away from and grownups will eventually stop worrying about it.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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There's a difference between a kids' version and a normal version with a censored word, though. *NM* - 04/01/2011 11:19:26 PM 360 Views
Wouldn't the "kids' versions" ALREADY have that word excised? *NM* - 04/01/2011 11:53:09 PM 375 Views
Presumably, yes. *NM* - 05/01/2011 06:28:47 PM 373 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 05/01/2011 01:04:16 AM 452 Views
That is just wrong. - 04/01/2011 08:00:57 PM 838 Views
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my gut says it wrong but my brain says it is OK - 04/01/2011 09:11:00 PM 998 Views
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yes but you are disagreeing with me so it is a wash *NM* - 05/01/2011 04:09:54 PM 354 Views
I see logic isn't your strong point. - 05/01/2011 04:09:27 PM 822 Views
Re: I see logic isn't your strong point. - 08/01/2011 01:32:16 AM 831 Views
it still boils down to the fact that most teachers will not use a book with word nigger in it - 08/01/2011 02:55:29 AM 735 Views
You must have a very low opinion of black people... - 08/01/2011 07:34:14 PM 877 Views
*cough* Rodney King trial *cough* *NM* - 22/01/2011 07:06:20 PM 388 Views
Wow. Hmm. - 04/01/2011 09:31:27 PM 857 Views
naw Twain was a pinko liberal *NM* - 04/01/2011 09:46:57 PM 364 Views
It's probably a bad idea - 04/01/2011 11:06:02 PM 761 Views
Heh. - 04/01/2011 11:26:00 PM 762 Views
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Just because it's the point doesn't mean I have to like it. *NM* - 05/01/2011 04:44:10 AM 344 Views
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My thoughts exactly *NM* - 06/01/2011 08:42:42 AM 357 Views
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What's next, burning Gone with the Wind? *NM* - 11/01/2011 12:54:46 PM 364 Views

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