What's really difficult about French for anglophones is not learning to read it (or understand standard spoken French, that gets rid of all the spelling difficulties). It's rather to express themselves that's far more difficult than say, becoming fluent in written and spoken Spanish (which is really is, both for French and English speakers, because the language is so straightforward). In speech, at least simple and casual conversation, it's not so bad. But I've rarely seen anglophones (other than professionals and other special cases, of course) who have not lived among French people and have practiced written French quite a lot who can write more than half-decent French, and the more subtle or precise what they're trying to say, the worse their French gets. In a large part, I think it's precisely the similarities between the two languages - and the many pitfalls the differences create - that make it so difficult (it's a bit the same for us but English is more forgiving), and that's due to the plethora of subtle and less subtle semantic shifts, and that requires a lot of time and constant contact with the language to master (of course, the French have the reverse problem with English words), and all the small differences between French and English syntax and grammar. Barbarisms and anglicisms await us at every turn (and the more you read and speak English, the worse it gets), be it French words we use in their English sense that doesn't exist or is improper in French, and more insidious, turns of phrase or expressions copied on English that are incorrect in French (and this is getting worse and worse in the "global village" as Québécois and French alike more often read and write in English nowadays (even natives have specialized reference books to spot or verify all those). It used to affect mostly Canadians and mostly people who spoke both langagues (and worse in Canada outside Québec), but the problem is becoming quite widespread too with the younger European francophones. Anglicisms are often to blame for confusion between European and Québécois - they don't understand what we mean because we give a word a meaning it doesn't have in French, or we use a turn of phrase that mimic English.
Yes, that's definitely a growing new difficulty for English speakers learning foreign languages - to know when they can use an English loanword and when not, and in some cases even to know the subtly altered meaning or different connotation of the English loanword.
You may be exaggerating a little about Spanish, though - literary, high-brow Spanish isn't exactly easy to write, either.
For anglophones who were not academically educated in French - learning the syntax and grammar the way native French speakers do and not as a second language, it's the same except much worse - and something hard to improve on (unless you not only read a lot of well-written material on a frequent basis but also write a lot, and get corrected by native speakers who master their own language well enough to spot your semantic and grammatical mistakes). Often enough, we understand what these anglos wrote not because it makes much sense in French, but because we have enough English to puzzle out what they really meant. As I said, the reverse is a bit easier, as many words in English have a much wider acceptable semantic range. Self-taught people like Larry and Tom probably face that problem very often. For the larger semantic shifts, the sentence won't seem to make sense and will drive them to a dictionary, but for most of the more subtle shifts (eg: when words have roughly the same meaning, but carry different connotations - the word "distinct" for instance) they most likely don't even notice them. I see that all the time with bilingual anglophones around me. They do tell us from time to time a word doesn't mean what we think it means in English, but it's far more frequent we have to correct their usage of words in French, or put them straight because they've taken a word in its English sense and thus misundertstood the real meaning, or the implied connotations, of what they read.
Makes sense. In any case I would imagine there are far more native French speakers in Canada who speak essentially flawless English than the other way around - a simple matter of opportunity and need, the two usual factors in language acquisition.
from the more remote parts of Quebec
There's not a lot of those. Give or take a few regionalisms or accents, there's barely any difference in the French spoken through Québec, especially since the spread of mass media. The regional differences are more marked in France. For the French, Montrealers arethe worst, because we use even more anglicisms. But it's not as bad as 50 years ago (when the French would have had problems understanding a working class, not very educated Montrealer), as knowledge of English is far more common in France nowadays.
Hmmmm. I spent close to two months in Québec a number of years ago, was dating a Québecois girl at the time. She spoke with barely any accent when she did an effort, and with a light and perfectly intelligible one when she didn't, but most others had a more pronounced accent - and when I visited some friends of hers just an hour or two from Montreal, the accents had gotten rather noticeably more pronounced, with the "toé"s all over the place (I suppose that could've been a coincidence, it's not much evidence to go on).
Or look at (well, listen to, I guess) Le Déclin de l'Empire Américain - the highly educated main characters for the most part have clear Québecois accents, but few speakers of French will have any difficulty with understanding them. Then the biker guy shows up, and I dare say most people in France didn't get much more of what he says than I did. I guess that example does indeed suggest it's more a matter of social class than location.
So I think there's quite a bit of variation in the French spoken in Québec actually, from an outsider's perspective. Going from the essentially Parisian to rather tricky accents and dialects. I'm not exactly an expert on dialects of metropolitan France either, but I don't recall ever hearing a French speaker that gave me as much trouble as that biker guy did.
La Jouissance by Friedrich der Große
18/09/2011 03:30:48 PM
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Er. Nice.
I guess his talent really did not lie in poetry...
18/09/2011 04:40:30 PM
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I was wondering if it was homosexual.
18/09/2011 05:30:49 PM
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Cloris is a female name, so yeah. But I wondered for a moment before reading it, as well.
18/09/2011 06:41:17 PM
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It was Praxiteles' Aphrodite that made me change my mind.
18/09/2011 07:12:44 PM
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A "beard"?
18/09/2011 08:10:04 PM
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A "beard" is a fake spouse for a gay person to hide that person's identity.
18/09/2011 08:51:36 PM
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I think it's exceptionally cool when they find things like this.
18/09/2011 05:54:20 PM
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Learn French!
18/09/2011 07:13:53 PM
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It's hardly that easy. But I agree that she should.
18/09/2011 08:12:01 PM
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Irish is never a sensible language to learn, unless Akkadian is sensible, too.
18/09/2011 08:54:48 PM
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I think Spanish makes more sense for Americans
18/09/2011 09:01:47 PM
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Note that I said "for educated English speakers"
18/09/2011 11:15:23 PM
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While I was making an observation on different cultures of English speakers
18/09/2011 11:47:41 PM
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I'm not sure the society has decided what it wants to do with the tens of millions of Hispanics.
19/09/2011 12:56:55 AM
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I still think Spanish is easier than French, yes. As is Italian, I'd think (not that I speak it).
18/09/2011 09:15:49 PM
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It is for sure
20/09/2011 01:28:49 AM
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Re: It is for sure
20/09/2011 09:13:03 PM
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I'm amused at the appearance of "baiser"
18/09/2011 08:39:43 PM
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One does wonder which meaning he intended.
18/09/2011 08:51:37 PM
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