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Why don't you like Ender's Game? Dan Send a noteboard - 29/01/2012 08:49:06 PM
I'm not one to get overly invested in the merit of one work or another, but I'm genuinely curious.

Also, you noted that many of the above were shitty prose writers, and I can't really disagree with most of your assessments, but certainly prose style isn't the only thing that contributes to an author's merit (it might be the most important, I'm not certain and don't think so, but that's for another time). If anything I think the substance of the original article's critique has more to do with plotting and structure rather than style. Both of those are, I think, deserving of consideration equal to prose style, though of course not to the latter's exclusion.

Viewed from the perspective of plotting and structure many of the authors listed actually are pretty good, in my opinion, and many did decline as the years went on- I myself have noticed this with Martin, Jordan, and Card to some extent. Also I can add with a degree of confidence Glen Cook, at least in the case of his Black Company series, who I think is a better writer than all of the others on that original list.











OK. Time to have fun eviscerating this:


Michael Moorcock [Born 1939]: Definitive series Elric 1965-1979, Nebula Award Behold the Man, 1967. Prime writing years Age 26-40.

No. His best work, albeit not his bestselling, were Gloriana (1978), Mother London (1989), Between the Wars sequence (1981-2006). Almost all of that after 40 and extending to age 67.

Orson Scott Card [Born 1951]: Definitive series Ender 1985 - Ongoing [but can you name a book after [b]Xenocide[/b], 1991?], Nebula Award Ender’s Game, 1985. Prime writing years Age 33-40.

Shit work.

Stephen King [Born 1947]: Definitive series [Fantasy] Gunslinger 1982-Ongoing, Bram Stoker Award Misery 1987. Prime writing years Age 30-50 [ending with The Green Mile].

Uneven writer throughout the past 40 years or so, even unto today.

Piers Anthony [Born 1934]: Definitive series Xanth 1977-Ongoing [I dare you to name all 36 current volumes!], Award Nebula Nomination A Spell for Chameleon, 1978. Prime writing years Age 32-52.

Utter dreck.

J.R.R. Tolkien [Born 1892]: Definitive series Lord of the Rings 1940+ [written], Published 1954, Award International Fantasy Award 1957. Prime writing years Age 40-57.

Yet his latest stages of his unfinished work, worked on during his late 60s-death at 81, is better in prose quality than LotR.

Arthur C. Clarke [Born 1917]: Definitive series Odyssey 1968. Hugo Award 1956 ‘The Star’, Prime writing years Age 40-55.

Never a very good prose stylist, but his works were well-received until the 1990s, so 70s-early 80s.

Robert Jordan [Born 1948]: Definitive series Wheel of Time 1990-Ongoing [Jordan died in 2007 at age 58], Locus Award Nominee Lord of Chaos, 1995, Prime writing years 40-50 [before the wheels came off Wheel of Time].

Pluh-eze.

Isaac Asimov [Born 1920]: Definitive series Foundation 1942, Award Nebula The Gods Themselves, 1972, Prime writing years Age 22-65.

Asimov sucked as a prose writer.

David Eddings [Born 1931]: Definitive series Belgariad 1982-1984, Locus Poll Best Fantasy Novel Nominee Pawn of Prophecy, 1983, Prime writing years Age 50-60 [in which he wrote both the [i]Belgariad[/i] and the Mallorean]

If these are meant to be held up as "good" writers, then this person wouldn't know quality writing from a hole in the ground, would he?

Sue Grafton [Born 1940]: Definitive series ‘is for’ [A is for Alibi] 1982-Ongoing, Anthony Award ‘B’ is for Burglar 1985, Prime writing years 42-55 [ending sometime around ‘M’ is for Malice]

Volume writer.

Anne McCaffrey [Born 1926] Definitive series Pern 1968-2001 [before she started co-authoring the series], Hugo Award
Weyr Search, 1968, Prime writing years Age 42-65 [ending around All the Weyrs of Pern].


Again, she's considered to be a "good" writer?


OK, now that I got that snark out of my system for a few moments, I'll just reiterate what a few others have said above. Leaving aside the dubious quality of most of the writers on this list, one might argue it isn't age as much as writing over and over and over and over, killing a few characters, resurrecting same characters, over and over and over and over and over ad nauseam in the same milieu. It is risible that this person (who, as Adam notes, is likely trying to get more going on Martin's work than anything else) tries to extrapolate from the dreck of literature and apply that universally.

Quick glance at some of my shelves:

José Saramago. Won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1998, around the age of 70. Produced some of his best work from the 1980s-2007 (I grant that Cain was his weakest in 20+ years). Began to be a full-time novelist in his late 60s.

Umberto Eco, who turns 80 later this year. Still producing memorable literature into his late 70s (although I value his non-fiction at least as high). I also happen to think that The Prague Cemetery is a very good work.

Naguib Mahfouz (1911-2006), 1988 Nobel Literature winner. Wrote some of his excellent work over 30 years after he began to make a name for himself. Produced literature of a high quality up to his 80s.

Milan Kundera (1929). He produced several well-known novels into his 70s.

Mario Vargas Llosa (1936). 2010 Nobel Literature winner. His last novel, El sueño del celta (2010; English translation later this year), was on par with his best novels.

I could name a dozen more, but if one looks at this list, one will see that 1) they wrote excellent prose well past their 60s, and 2) they were known for actually knowing how to write decent prose in the first place. Of course, none of them wrote multi-volume fat fantasies that they had to vomit up 250,000 words of prose every 1-2 years, which perhaps is a stronger indictment of that subgenre of literature than any individual author's age.
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Do authors age like fine wine or like that rat that died behind the fridge three days ago? - 28/01/2012 08:11:28 PM 1018 Views
I thought that article was full of shit - 28/01/2012 08:13:36 PM 967 Views
Why don't you like Ender's Game? - 29/01/2012 08:49:06 PM 1014 Views
That article got off on the wrong foot and never really managed to get it back. - 28/01/2012 11:09:08 PM 874 Views
Yes, and I could have listed quite a few "genre" writers as well for counter-evidence - 29/01/2012 01:43:28 AM 760 Views
Indeed. - 29/01/2012 11:35:09 AM 568 Views
Too many targets to risk losing focus on any single one of them - 29/01/2012 01:38:16 PM 568 Views
Re: Too many targets to risk losing focus on any single one of them - 29/01/2012 01:46:37 PM 573 Views
But in that particular piece? - 29/01/2012 01:50:24 PM 641 Views
Fridge, mostly. *NM* - 29/01/2012 01:01:10 AM 401 Views

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