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I wouldn't call his politics that unusual Isaac Send a noteboard - 19/09/2013 10:59:26 AM

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View original postAnd I don't just mean in the sense I hate to say that about anyone with double-digit books. I sometimes feel he gets an unfair wrap. His prose sucks, but that describes at least half of the well known SF/F writers and the ones who actually have good prose tend to have English degrees like Zelazny or Tolkien and since I like Hard SF I'll take a scientist writing bad prose but good imagery and solid concept over good prose. Its not that he's an arrogant prick, that also describes at least half the well known SF/F writers. His imagery is way to heavy on the sex and violence crap but he's practically G-rated compared to GRRM or Anne Rice. There's the whole ranting about his politics/philosophy thing but there are a fair few authors just as ham-fisted and whole truckloads that do it just as much, and prove their points in just as contrived a fashion but just cover it better.


View original postAnd I don't know if any other author is quite as repetitive, both in terms of endlessly rehashing the objectivist preaching and in terms of summarizing the plot of earlier books in every single book for those readers who suffer from acute amnesia (or didn't bother with the earlier books).

Objectivism isn't all that much different then atheistic libertarianism, which is probably the most common author rant after atheism+socialism, so I wouldn't call his politics abnormal and I don't mind much. His arguments in book are contrived, his lectures on it though are fairly high quality compared to the norm in SF, if still not very stellar. Not only is the political diatribe pretty common in SF/F, they show up in most of the good ones.

But yeah, the recaps and reuse gets old, its also why I think his editor is AWOL or useless, or he'd hang lanterns on it, the classic way to avoid pissing off your audience at the repetition of sometihng like losing your powers is to have the hero remark on how it happens so much. Richard could just say something like "This happens all the time, unsurprisingly when you're a very powerful war wizard, super-soldier, and Emperor, your enemies usually hold of striking till they've figured out a way to remove at least on of those edges.", it's also a great excuse to recap in a fashion that doesn't piss off the audience.


View original postI think the preaching and repetitiveness keeps people from noticing (or remembering) some of the strengths that he does have as a writer - Wizard's First Rule was, as you noted, actually quite good as an epic fantasy novel, and had some good ideas (though also some horrible clichés), while Faith of the Fallen has a superb opening line and some really rather impressive propagandistic writing (unfortunately it also has an atrocious ending).

He's definitely got some talent as a writer, he sells a lot of books and I've mostly enjoyed them. Admittedly I'm a bad judge of quality as I'm entirely happy to keep reading the endless volumes churned out in any number of shared-universe settings, Star Wars, D&D's vairous series, W40k, etc.

Faith of the Fallen, I really enjoyed it my first read until the ending, rereads though had me disliking the book a lot. I actually mean re-listens since I absorb most books via audio and often listen to them a dozen or more times while working on other things. I often really enjoy a book, then read or listen to it again and have to shut it off because its not as good and actually reduces my original sensation of wonder, and I often enjoy them again on the 20th or 30th time I've played, which is the case with the Hitchhiker's radio dramas. I rarely enjoyed a book but then hated it the second time, the end ruins it and ruins its good parts for reread.


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View original postHe does make it hard to be a fan though. The first book was great, so much so that I almost think he stumbled into it on accident. It steps on a lot of tired and worn out cliches in fantasy. Second book was decent, after that it varies a lot but always follows the same theme, Richard and Kahlan get separated, one or both of them loses their powers, almost a necessity since they're both so Mary Sue, the situation is hopeless, bad guys are defeated, and also the bad guys are utterly totally evil with no redeeming merits whatsoever.


View original postYup. Those bad guys who start out with some appearance of roundedness either end up becoming good guys (Cara, Nicci) or turn out to be utterly evil after all. I'll give him points for Denna, but that's about the only one.


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View original postSo the books started sucking from 6-8, improved a bit for 9 & 10, sucked some more for 11, I wrote the series off after 6, only skimmed 7, almost threw 8, but read 9 and was happy enough with it to do 10 and carry on for the 'conclusion' in 11, which sucked. I swore off and didn't read his prequels or side book on Earth.


View original postDebt of Bones was readable, as I recall, largely because it was merely novella length, but it has been a very long time since I read it. I do have to quibble with "sucking from 6-8" - I've long argued that book six is in some ways the most notable book of the series and, apart from the ending as I mentioned above, arguably the best, or second best after Wizard's First Rule. It certainly doesn't approach the level of the terrible books 7 and 8. The politics are very much present, but in the form of an unsubtle propagandistic narrative, not in the form of direct preaching like in most later books.

I'll have to give it a try if I make it through the current volume, he apparently did another prequel book too which was referenced a lot in the current one. I wonder if FoF's bad ending coming after an otherwise good book is what makes it so aggravating.


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View original postNew book, still plodding through it, thus far it's Richard talking with some girl, minus his abilities, minus his allies, just talking... and talking... and talking. It's not exactly insanely boring but its definitely not sucking me in. I was going to say it seems like his editor quit or something, with the sheer repetition of word choices in the dialogue so far but I have to assume based on the rest of the series that his editor either nods at everything, gets ignored, or is a gibbering nail-biting wreck occupying an asylum by now.


View original postYeah, you're very right about the editor... any halfway decent editor who could afford not to be a doormat would've excised tens if not hundreds of pages from most Sword of Truth novels, especially the later ones.

His later books seem like the expanded director's cut of an otherwise good film with the director's commentary over top of them.


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View original postAll that said though I never get why Goodkind sets so many people's teeth on edge. I can't think of anything he does that's particular abnormal in SF/F circles.


View original postIf you have to boil it down to just one thing, I would say it has to be that he not only writes about horrible mass murders and other atrocities, but has his hero condone or even perpetrate/order them in some cases, and makes abundantly clear that he supports his hero in that.

That would be more okay if many of the people I hear complain about it didn't also happen to be huge GRRM fans. Crossing or flirting with the moral event horizon is normal enough in SF/F, I think its probably that his characters don't agonize about it afterwards that damages it. If he chopped out one of the sections of Richard lecturing in favor of Richard agonizing, or better yet had him do it with occasion displays of self-doubt, remorse, second thoughts, etc it would be better. Or ditto if the recaps were in dialogue and showed him selectively editing events as an unreliable narrator. Unfortunately that would screw up his Marty Stu character, though it would make for a much better story.


View original postEven in Wizard's First Rule (iirc, I may be off on some details), there's some princess of 10 or so years old who is horrible to her inferiors and delights in being cruel to Richard during his captivity with Denna; he ends up violently assaulting and I think killing her, with the apparent approval of the author. That alone was enough for a lot of readers, and later occasions where Richard condemns entire cities or countries to death merely sealed it.

She doesn't die, she actually comes back as an even more psychopathic and older version of herself to be killed by her former victim. I think he was going for intentionally not taking the easy way out, I see her as a parallel to Joffrey from aSoIaF. The characters are clearly monsters who have about a 0% chance of ever not being monsters and running people's lives, most authors would have just had a villain kill or minor character them. The books don't try to hide the heroes doing monstrous acts, as I said above though it would be a lot better if there was at least some regret shown afterwards or emotional damage.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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So Goodkind had this new book,The Third Kingdom, come out and...well, it is garbage - 10/09/2013 09:39:29 AM 1874 Views
Hm, I had no idea he was still writing sword of Truth books. - 10/09/2013 02:44:05 PM 803 Views
My mother came from the library with this book today. - 11/09/2013 01:08:04 AM 847 Views
You will, alas *NM* - 11/09/2013 08:21:54 AM 353 Views
Amazon just informed me that I live in the same town as Goodkind... - 11/09/2013 08:21:15 PM 832 Views
Go egg his house *NM* - 12/09/2013 07:20:28 PM 380 Views
If I knew where... - 13/09/2013 01:33:49 AM 837 Views
I don't. - 13/09/2013 05:25:12 AM 927 Views
Honestly... - 13/09/2013 07:20:39 AM 869 Views
Choose death - 15/09/2013 09:27:26 AM 780 Views
Ah, thank you. We haven't had a good Goodkind thrashing in quite some time... - 13/09/2013 02:09:02 AM 844 Views
Well, they might if they actually had a forum active anymore - 15/09/2013 09:26:10 AM 919 Views
I don't know, I hate to say he's a bad writer - 18/09/2013 11:22:02 AM 1236 Views
For me it is his trite "moral" for every book. - 18/09/2013 03:32:15 PM 933 Views
The wizard rules got old fast - 19/09/2013 11:14:24 AM 1098 Views
His politics are more unusual than most authors', and his arrogance is more blatant, I guess. - 18/09/2013 05:46:54 PM 1205 Views
I wouldn't call his politics that unusual - 19/09/2013 10:59:26 AM 1071 Views
You forget - they are all socialists here - 25/10/2013 04:23:14 AM 1035 Views

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