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I guess if you need to ask, nothing I say will convince you? Legolas Send a noteboard - 27/03/2015 08:17:55 PM

View original postThe Khedive was a terrible administrator, yes, but that can only explain the Mahdi, not justify his actions. Of course, he thankfully died fairly quickly and was replaced by the Khalifa, who seemed slightly less fanatical. Still, even by local standards he was a heretic; declaring himself the Mahdi was blasphemy. What was bad about blowing up his tomb and throwing the bones in the Nile?

As I recall, he was only about the twentieth or so self-declared Mahdi in Sudan in his century. That particular heresy was pretty wide-spread - or it was just a battle cry for standing up against the foreign regime, more like.
View original postI also disagree about Fashoda. While Cecil Rhodes had an "all red" plan for a railroad from Cairo to the Cape (with a telegraph line along its route), Her Majesty's government never did. The conquest of Egypt ironically happened under Gladstone, who loathed all imperialism, and the government was perfectly content to let the Mahdists control the territory provided that no other power did, because in reality all the British government cared about was that a foreign power not control the sources of the Nile. It was believed that this could be used as leverage over Egypt by building dams to cut off the flow of water or even divert the river's course. Salisbury's government was more worried about the German East African state attempting to push north (indeed, it tried for a time when it got the support of Dr. Emin, the nominal governor of Equatoria).

Interesting, the German East African state didn't come up in any of what I read. To the extent that you can believe what people say in parliamentary debates (the Hansard was one of my main sources), the immediate spur to action was the Italian defeat at Adowa, plus some Conservatives, (including Henry Morton Stanley) simply figuring there were interesting resources to be had in Sudan - cotton, say. The mindset in 1896 was quite different from what it had been back in 1884-85, when indeed the only thing that interested the British in Sudan was called Charles George Gordon.

Salisbury himself wasn't too much of an imperialist, either, or at least not in that part of the world - I too had noticed the irony of all that expansion occuring on first Gladstone's and then his watch. As for Fashoda, that whole thing started long after the British began their conquest (it took them nearly three years, not because the opposition made them break any sweat but because they didn't want to outpace the railway they were building). So no, the French had nothing to do with the initial conquest plans - I'm just saying, while they were already there anyway and so close to completing their railroad plans, they were hardly going to let some French explorer waltz in and sabotage it all at the last minute.

And yeah, the Nile water story... the English were pretty clever about that, and not above threatening Egypt with precisely that, whenever it suited them.

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The Scramble for Africa, by Thomas Pakenham - 25/03/2015 11:51:41 PM 1847 Views
Damn. What a review. How can I not buy the book after reading that? - 26/03/2015 07:19:22 AM 834 Views
That might be interesting - what is the take on things? *NM* - 26/03/2015 01:15:42 PM 352 Views
My son listens to his podcast - 27/03/2015 10:08:16 PM 795 Views
It is an excellent book. - 26/03/2015 11:10:13 AM 829 Views
Very interesting. I definitely need to read more about Africa, so this could be a good start. - 26/03/2015 10:44:42 PM 882 Views
What was wrong with blowing up the Mahdi's tomb? - 27/03/2015 04:10:28 PM 768 Views
I guess if you need to ask, nothing I say will convince you? - 27/03/2015 08:17:55 PM 890 Views
I wouldn't trust Parliamentary debates much at all, no - 28/03/2015 05:34:17 PM 702 Views
That looks really good; I'd been looking for something like this - 27/03/2015 05:26:11 PM 861 Views
sounds interesting. I will have to put it on the list *NM* - 27/03/2015 10:06:07 PM 423 Views
Not available as an e-book, unfortunately. - 09/04/2015 05:59:32 PM 758 Views
That sounds intriguing. - 21/04/2015 12:43:03 AM 836 Views

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