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Well, Cahn and Carbone aren't experts in the field either Isaac Send a noteboard - 26/07/2010 05:25:50 PM
Firstly, I think it's rather unfair to judge a book of presumably many hundreds of pages by a supposedly summarizing article of a few pages that isn't even written by the authors - hell, not even by an expert in the field. Sure, the book uses that terminology of Red and Blue families in its title, but it's normal enough for a scientific book to have a not entirely scientific title that is a lot less nuanced than the actual content of the book.


The two ladies in question both teach Feminist Jurisprudence at law schools, and have no scientific pre-law background, having attended the same PR and IA school for their bachelors of art, they've no science or math background, social or natural. I recognize the data they are using, its ACS data from the Census Bureau, Pew did an analysis of it sometime back, needless to say they didn't draw the same conclusions, but then they didn't deliberately leave out the most blue least liberal demographic of the Dems, African-Americans, in their analysis, which has been a source of a lot of criticism on the book.

Secondly, I would have to disagree that African-Americans are all that liberal as a group. They certainly are very Democratic-leaning as a group, but the two aren't the same thing - there are centrist and even conservative-leaning Democrats out there. And I think it's clear for everyone that all those African-Americans have other reasons to vote Democratic than their actual political views - it doesn't make any sense that such a vast percentage of African-Americans would have liberal political views. I think the article even mentions this, and points out the known fact that many African-Americans have social views that are more conservative than the Democratic mainstream.


AA aren't particularly liberal, no, almost all blue though, red v blue state doesn't measure lib/con tendency. As is often pointed out, all that is indicated by Red v Blue is what percentage of the population of the state is urban.

Also not mentioned in the article is that those 5 young red states have a median first marriage age of 25, with the usual year and change higher for males over females, and the old blues are 30, DC sticks out at 32. When Pew looked at their data what they commented on was that the first marriage age of everyone was on a massive rise and that marriage length was shorter, more divorces. Utah, the very youngest, has half of it's first-time brides before age 24, not exactly in my mind a horrible sign.

It's just a number game though, which draws my criticism, and would draw it heavier if the authors actually had a scientific background, I can play with the same data and show you higher crime rates in blue states too, and as right-wing as I am I don't consider the dems to encourage crime. We see a lot of cherry picking of data to essentially change the real demographic culprits into political ones, its practically become a dance routine. My favorites are the ones conclusively proving how much dumber or smarter one group is over another, invariably a form of ideological masturbation that often uses false indicators and when they do it properly amounts to assigning a cause-effect relationship between two things which are actual effects. You remember that 'economic knowledge' survey that got posted a while back I'm sure, and while it was probable that pro-capitalist would know more about capitalist economic theory the choice in wording was clearly the root of the knowledge gap, nor did economic knowledge indicate anything about intelligence other than knowledge of economics.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

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Red Families, Blue Families, Gay Families, and the Search for a New Normal - 24/07/2010 05:56:09 AM 680 Views
This guy needs an editor. "Alright" is not all right. *NM* - 24/07/2010 07:44:40 AM 74 Views
Is that really all you have to say about that article? - 24/07/2010 12:14:11 PM 179 Views
When I'm on my iPhone I'm limited to short snark. - 24/07/2010 10:21:48 PM 184 Views
Mmm, really though... - 24/07/2010 10:55:46 PM 165 Views
It's a shame forum posts don't have "Sent from my iPhone" at the bottom like e-mails do. - 25/07/2010 12:00:12 AM 171 Views
What, so we can have the excuse for writing shitty posts? - 25/07/2010 01:52:01 AM 171 Views
I understand a lot of black people oppose gay marriage. - 25/07/2010 01:02:18 PM 165 Views
I understand a lot of black people oppose gay marriage. - 25/07/2010 01:02:19 PM 169 Views
Two things - 25/07/2010 01:43:56 PM 168 Views
BS it is culture not religion - 25/07/2010 03:21:59 AM 177 Views
Five high-profile atheists against gay marriage. Go. *NM* - 25/07/2010 04:22:57 AM 92 Views
China *NM* - 25/07/2010 04:51:43 AM 78 Views
...well played. *NM* - 25/07/2010 04:55:33 AM 80 Views
That's a fascinating insight, although it does set my "oversimplification" alarm bells ringing. - 24/07/2010 01:02:38 PM 198 Views
I agree that it seems overly simplified - 24/07/2010 03:26:13 PM 185 Views
what do you mean don't assciate red/blue with republican/democrat? - 26/07/2010 04:34:18 PM 151 Views
I know, but in the context of what he's discussing... - 26/07/2010 05:43:29 PM 150 Views
that is like trying to separate wet and water - 26/07/2010 06:29:48 PM 156 Views
I'm thinking a bit outside his actual article - 26/07/2010 08:32:09 PM 149 Views
very interesting read - 24/07/2010 03:27:41 PM 150 Views
This is a very interesting subject. I'll link to an older article inside. - 24/07/2010 05:50:47 PM 173 Views
Shit that new yorker article is almost 2 years old - 25/07/2010 05:25:20 AM 164 Views
You pre-empted one of the comments I was going to make... - 25/07/2010 12:12:56 AM 188 Views
Try reading the article to which I linked in the post above yours. - 25/07/2010 03:01:21 AM 163 Views
In america once you account inflation and after taxes - 25/07/2010 05:16:35 AM 165 Views
Not sure what the relevance of that to my post is? - 25/07/2010 10:52:29 AM 155 Views
You were saying - 25/07/2010 01:38:12 PM 155 Views
My point on that topic was... - 25/07/2010 01:50:19 PM 164 Views
I nor the author never said the word failure - 25/07/2010 02:45:11 PM 153 Views
Red/blue assumptions here are likely a mistake - 25/07/2010 01:43:18 AM 202 Views
I'd be interested to see the reasons why you assert that "most people don't really like gays." - 25/07/2010 01:56:30 AM 174 Views
You'd only ever get anecdotal proof - 25/07/2010 02:15:54 AM 172 Views
in some instances, it's totally legit to dislike a fat person - 25/07/2010 04:19:40 AM 169 Views
In that case, then, I disagree with you. - 25/07/2010 04:25:38 AM 156 Views
Well, like I said I think you're mistaking my meaning on that - 25/07/2010 05:12:45 AM 158 Views
most people don't really like most people, period. - 25/07/2010 04:15:58 AM 150 Views
how many people in your generation use "that is so gay" as a compliment? - 26/07/2010 02:33:12 PM 176 Views
and article that uses "Red families and Blues Families" as it basis really can't be taken seriously - 26/07/2010 02:59:20 PM 158 Views
I'm not disagreeing with your whole post, but two important points... - 26/07/2010 04:43:55 PM 165 Views
Well, Cahn and Carbone aren't experts in the field either - 26/07/2010 05:25:50 PM 160 Views
while the specific demographics discussed are certainly worth questioning... - 26/07/2010 05:48:30 PM 175 Views
the study he builds his argument around is not worth questioning - 26/07/2010 06:43:21 PM 151 Views
I agree with you mostly - 26/07/2010 08:28:04 PM 156 Views
My personal definition is a man and woman wanting to raise children or at least build a life togeth - 26/07/2010 10:22:35 PM 160 Views
All of that is quite sensible. - 26/07/2010 11:47:10 PM 153 Views
Interesting. - 26/07/2010 06:40:44 PM 163 Views
just to be nit picky myself - 26/07/2010 06:48:56 PM 151 Views
Correct, the median age factor was also ignored - 26/07/2010 07:28:19 PM 175 Views
I think those points support my argument - 26/07/2010 06:16:29 PM 157 Views
Re: I think those points support my argument - 26/07/2010 06:31:34 PM 150 Views

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