Re: As I mentioned numerous times. - Edit 1
Before modification by Joel at 17/11/2010 01:45:36 AM
You do understand, don't you, that this PARTICULAR opinion by these PARTICULAR philosophers have been the basis for virtually all Western governments for centuries? What other legitimacy does your aspiring subversion have?
My subversion is not aimed at Western governments, which I no longer believe to be the primary drivers of policy. Furthermore, that particular sentence is incredibly Euro/Anglo-centric.
You may believe what you wish, but even to the great extent multinationals and corporations are in the drivers seat they're still forced to implement policy through and within the constraints of government. That's certainly changing, and I'm sure the Tea Party is as alarmed as you and I by the WTO et al. eroding popular sovereignty, but for the moment the REAL "special interests" (which aren't unions and unwed mothers) simply have more government ACCESS than the common man. Government still could and will reign them in if so inclined, and I'm not sure it can be otherwise, if a nation would still go to war just to enforce terms of a "free" trade treaty.
And, yes, the term "Western" is fairly Western oriented (much easier to say that than to try straddling the Atlantic with "Euro/Anglo-centric" and what do you have against Central and South America?

Perhaps you're looking forward to some sort of global state though, in which case you and the WTO have much in common. If so, I suspect only one of you has considered your recourse when a global government is corrupted and bought as inevitably as all the others. That's just speculation on my part though, so you're welcome to disregard it.
Again, you have a very traditional interpretation of the term subversion, which doesn't take into account modern philosophy, including feminist theory, post-structuralist theory, and varying forms of social structure theory. I'd continue with this, but I'm honestly not interested (I am still interested in interesting websites!). You do seem smart, but your traditionalism diminishes some of your better comments. I'd also suggest not jumping all over the place within your paragraphs, because it clutters them, and makes it appear you're not willing to confront a point directly.
I try to be thorough, and sometimes it's not immediately obvious how a given tangent is relevant, but it USUALLY is. People tend to forget that tangent lines must touch a circle at one point or they aren't tangents.
Again, I recognize and concede that "subversion" can have both the broad meaning you seem to be arguing as well as the more narrow one I keep discussing. My issue is not one of provincialism or conservatism, however, my issue is how the word is GENERALLY understood, because that's how your statements will be GENERALLY understood. If you want to join with others interested in reform, best to say something like that, because if you say, "subversion" instead you may end up in a room full of anarchists. As I've said, normally I'd be on your side linguistically, but I think the stakes are too high to be strictly academic here. If you insist on using that particular word, be VERY careful to explicitly state HOW you're using it. Especially if you're talking to anyone from any government agency (and I suspect you will be soon if you haven't yet.... )