Active Users:166 Time:17/05/2024 07:05:13 AM
They were both terrorist attacks. - Edit 1

Before modification by Joel at 15/05/2011 02:56:47 PM

Not sure what time it was when the bomb went off in Oklahoma City, but I know a daycare was part of the building destroyed; even if it wasn't nap time that doesn't really practically change the statements validity. It's a statistically negligible risk, yes, but the magnitude of that risk increases significantly in people completely oblivious to it.

You are making very little sense. Why are you bringing up a bombing by American gun nuts in a thread about the lack of awareness of Islamic terrorism in American kids? Are you trying to expose your own lack of awareness?

And no, the risk doesn't increase significantly. There just aren't enough terrorism attacks for it to factor in at all.

My concern is about ignorance; "Islamic" is rather irrelevant to me there except insofar as a lot of terrorism is Islamic. In fact, I'd say people are more likely to be ignorant of McVeigh and his ilk than of bin Laden. As for whether there's enough terrorism for awareness of it to reduce vulnerability to it, we'll have to agree to disagree there, but check the list. Not counting Mexican border incidents related to drug cartel warfare ( "significant" enough the State Department issued travel warnings and governors demanded federal aid to protect citizens) there have been an average of 2.5 terrorist incidents/year in the US alone since 2001, and number is significantly higher in many other countries. Of course, terrorism killed thousands of Americans in the US in 2001, and I think you'll be hard pressed to show sugar addiction has killed as many (particularly since the jury's still out on whether such a thing even exists, and I expect no proof).
There's plenty of information available about what's healthy; again, even 20-25 years ago when I was in middle and high school I got it in no less than three different health classes. The epidemic of unhealthy diets despite widely disseminated information on how to eat healthy doesn't exactly undermine my initial assertion that the kids are ignoring information necessary to their continued well being.

Wow... you had information about it in at least 3 health classes! How often have you seen coca cola (pepsi, dr pepper, sprite, etc) commercials? How often have you seen fast food commercials? How often have you seen ice cream commercials?
How many healthy food options are easily available?
Can't you see that this is disproportionately stacked in favor of unhealthy food?

I've seen plenty of commercials for both unhealthy and extremely healthy food; there's a whole industry for the latter based on people who share your views. Peoples preferences are disproportionately stacked in favor of food that's quick, cheap, easy and tasty, usually at the expense of health. The media and food producers don't make people buy those things, and I don't think all the activist American moms denying their kids ANY sugar have had much impact on the nations health.
Sugar addiction sounds a bit sketchy to me, no offense. Psychological dependence, maybe, but people are more likely to be bouncing off the walls when they ARE on sugar than when they're not.

What's sketchy about sugar addiction?

Wikipedias article on the subject states
Sugar addiction is a perceived difficulty controlling intake of sweet foods or beverages. Although the term itself is not generally used to refer to any scientific construct, mounting evidence suggests that under certain conditions, consumption of sweets or sugar may indeed become addiction-like.

Any concept of sugar addiction is complicated by a lack of consensus on the actual definition of addiction....

Some psychologists maintain that results of this type may indeed provide a new way of looking at overeating, but that much caution should be exercised about using them to effectively put sugar in the same category as drugs. They believe there is some overlap between the systems that control food intake and addiction but this cannot yet unambiguously be said to necessarily make certain foods addictive.

Some animals, and some people, may become overly dependent on sweet food, particularly if they periodically stop eating and then binge. This may relate to eating disorders such as bulimia. It would probably be more correct to refer to the laboratory rats referred to above as "sugar-dependent" rather than "addicted. " In general, to be classified as an addiction, reproducible "double blind" experiments would have to show that the experimental subjects exhibited all three elements that make up the definition of this term: a behavioral pattern of increased intake and changes in brain chemistry; then signs of withdrawal and further changes in brain chemistry upon deprivation; and third, signs of craving and relapse after withdrawal is over.

Above emphases mine. The issue of "relapse" is significant here, because the technical term for a human who ingests no sugar directly or otherwise is "corpse". It is sketchy, to say the least; while psychological dependence is "addiction-like", if it were addiction we wouldn't need the suffix.
If you are used to having sugar in everything, your body will expect sugar in everything. When it's no longer there, your body will crave the sugar, because it's used to getting it. Metabolism works with homeostasis, i.e. it wants to retain the levels it's used to.
And how is bouncing off walls or not related to it being or not being an addition? Btw, there's no scientific proof that sugar makes people bounce off walls.

Metabolism "works" with SUGAR. It is the one and only means by which our cells obtain energy; the whole reason we respire is to provide oxygen for our cells to metabolize sugar to get energy. I'm really not interested in getting into the specious "sugar is a toxin" debate, but as someone who's spent a FAIR amount of time in America as a child and adult, I can assure you that discussion is as much a part of public discourse as it is anywhere else. "Bouncing off the walls" was a reference to the anxiety and physical discomfort common in addicts experiencing withdrawal. There may be no scientific proof sugar literally makes people bounce off walls, but there's plenty of scientific proof excess sugar leads to excess energy that, among other things, typically produces excessive activity. Psychological dependence on ANYTHING is possible, of course; that's what OCD is. It's not an addiction except by the loosest and most generous definition. I've known a LOT of addicts over the years, and sugar addiction seems at least as ridiculous to me as you find the notion that someone ignorant of terrorism directed at them increases their vulnerability to it.
If there are sugar addicts out there, they have my sincere pity, because they're gonna remain "powerless over their addiction" quite literally till the day they die.

You have a weird definition of addiction.

One of us certainly does.
Yes, sweet things are enjoyable; it's one of natures little ways of making us want something we need to survive. Yes, lots of people consume far more than they should, but "sugar addiction" and research seeking to prove it sounds more like an excuse for overindulging in something we need without having to take responsibility for that fact.

No, it's about ensuring that sugar stops being added to everything.

Sugar isn't "added to everything". Apples don't have added sugar. Water doesn't have added sugar. Most bread doesn't have added sugar (though an addict would eat it anyway because it has a LOT of starch they can easily convert to sugar). If you're that worried about the issue, tackling it as "sugar is added to everything" is counterproductive. The problem is FAR more complex, involving far greater factors like:

People in industrialized countries have less time and money to obtain, prepare and consume healthy food, consequently encouraginges them to eat quick, easy, cheap and unhealthy food.

In America a variety of agricultural subsidies (primarily to large corporate farms who don't need them) exacerbate that problem by artificially lowering prices on unhealthy food, thereby creating market incentives to consume more of it.

Wealthy industrialized nations have more people who can and do consume food (among other things... ) excessively.

Jobs and recreation in such countries are increasingly sedentary, and eating candy while playing Super Mario burns less calories than sandlot football.

Boiling all that down to "there's too much added sugar" is rather missing the point; it may be convenient if one indulges the conceit that all Americans are fat, stupid and lazy, but in that case see my earlier statement on counterproductivity. That's not to say I disagree with reducing the amount of added sugar (especially artificial sugar, e.g. the infamous HFCS) but by itself it's simply treating a symptom. Regardless, just because people decline to use any self control doesn't make them addicts; the whole basis of addiction is that self control is no longer a relevant issue.
Then I would say you're not very far aware on how US home schooling is done then, and that the phrase "religious fanatic" is sometimes thrown about too loosely.

I'm admittedly not very aware of home schooling in the US. But nearly everything I've read about home schooling in the US has been done by religious fanatics. I may throw this around too loosely for your comfort, so I'll explain my definition: people who home school their children so as to avoid the children coming into contact with view points other than their own religious doctrine.

Ah, well, in that case, no problem; all states have curriculum standards home schools must meet just like conventional schools do. Setting aside cases where kids are home schooled because their parents lack confidence in traditional schols (with some justification), even parents who home school because they don't want their kids to accept, say, evolution, are still required to ensure their kids are VERY familiar with the concept as represented by science. Again, if your primary concern is the kids' education, checking standardized test scores might make you an ADVOCATE of home schooling where possible. It's amazing how much more development a childs education can receive when they're one of three rather than thirty. Partly for the reason you stated, I happen to support traditional schools, particularly public ones, and despair of the extent to which America often neglects them. However, I see nothing wrong with home schooling; I just don't think kids whose parents don't have that option should be doomed to a life of ignorance.
As to your other point, social interaction needn't be confined to school, and social growth will almost certainly be stunted if it is. If schools don't provide a quality education, should a parent who can sacrifice that to add to the social interaction their child should be getting outside of school anyway?

You mean, within the church?

No, I don't, or I would have said so; it's certainly one of the many options, but the sandlot football game would be more appropriate (they can even use a spherical ball if you find that less offensive). When did this stop being about knowledge of terrorism and become about what's wrong with your caricature of America? Can we agree that such derogatory and inaccurate assumptions are beneath us both, or should I indulge a few as well?
As to the rest 1. I didn't say a womans place is in the home (though it certainly CAN be, and a woman without the CHOICE is equally unfree whatever path is forced upon her), I said the people who argue that most forcefully have done the most to make it untenable.

I think that it's a luxury to be able to expect that one person in a household can just stay at home, not earning an income. For most people in the world, this is not an option. In case it's possible, though, why should only the woman have this amount of freedom to choose? Are women supposed to be more free than men these days?

Heh, it often seems that way, but, no, it should be a family decision since it impacts the whole family; if they decide the man should be the stay at home parent, that's equally legitimate whether it's conventional or not. Single income households ARE a luxury now--but were the norm in America until about a generation ago. That's why I said it's ironic that the same people most opposed to working mothers are the very ones whose economic policies have made it vital for mothers to work. I think most kids would benefit from a parent whose primary activity was raising them, but busting unions, gutting public education and ensuring girls with no access to abortion drop out of high school to raise kids by themselves doesn't foster that goal.
2. Having a baby doesn't automatically make anyone a skillful teacher, but if the professional teachers and educational system is woefully inadequate only a foolish woman would rely on them for her childs education if she could take charge of it herself.

What? So she should be an inadequate teacher herself instead? A lot of people aren't all that bright, you do realize that, don't you?

Yes, I do, but if the choice is between kids being taught by an inadequate parent or an inadequate teacher adequacy is off the table. In that case I'd probably pick the one who already has an established bond with the child and a strong interest in the kids current and future well being. I know which one has the greatest incentive to alleviate their inadequacy for the benefit of the child.

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