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Guess I count myself among those fools, though I pretty much agree with Danny. Joel Send a noteboard - 10/10/2011 10:52:11 AM
Even if we limit this to theoretical merits and ignore the ground-level impact from the things put into practice, the doctrine of the one will end up pretty much negating the other. Communism is a form of secular utopianism so riddled with internal contradictions that it simply cannot stand on its own. History attests this. Now, there are some 4I fools who claim communism, True Communism, has never actually been implemented anywhere, that what was practiced amounted to little more than Red Imperialism, but they're splitting hairs as far as I'm concerned.

Look over the history of self proclaimed "communist" leaders and they're an unlikely lot, particularly the two most "successful" ones. Stalin was an ex-seminary student turned revolutionary strongman and Mao was an illiterate peasant turned revolutionary strongman, both in heavily agrarian countries that each had to be aggressively industrialized before any kind of industrial workers paradise could even be possible. Neither of them was anything like a true political scientist or economist, so it is hard to be sure if they did not know or simply did not care communism was a non sequitur in their native lands. A century later and each has only begun reaching the point anything like communism as described by Marx is an option, but Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. etc. would have been perfectly happy to make Pastafarianism their path to power if it would have worked. Stalin might well have done so if he had not been kicked out of the seminary at the end, and Castro is such a hard core secular communist he still respects the Pope. :rolleyes:

So, no, I disagree that historys verdict invalidates communism, because I do contend it has not been tried (for one thing, Marxism predicts a global worker revolution and subsequent government, which I KNOW has never existed.) I agree that it is a utopian fantasy that ignores humanitys moral weaknesses and therefore WOULD always fail if attempted, but that does not mean it has. That various dictators have attached themselves to communist rhetoric to sell their brutal authoritarianism makes them opportunists, not communists. East Germany called itself a "Democratic Republic," too; so what?
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Is communism the true economy of democracies? - 10/10/2011 01:35:24 AM 733 Views
Sorry, not following this..... - 10/10/2011 03:33:11 AM 549 Views
Re: Sorry, not following this..... - 10/10/2011 03:54:45 AM 464 Views
Um, a LOT of places have mixed "free" market and state rule. - 10/10/2011 05:43:49 AM 571 Views
WTF? Canada, Western Europe, and Japan are democracies, not state-rule like China - *NM* - 10/10/2011 05:53:17 PM 203 Views
Think he means we all have public sector enterprise. - 10/10/2011 06:24:10 PM 404 Views
Yeah, I thought it was clear as well. - 10/10/2011 06:32:02 PM 440 Views
Yeah, Stephen pretty much covered it. - 11/10/2011 06:10:38 AM 478 Views
They are not similar. - 10/10/2011 04:01:59 AM 425 Views
Re: They are not similar. - 10/10/2011 04:47:26 AM 499 Views
No, but socialism is. - 10/10/2011 06:09:55 AM 477 Views
No. A thousand times no. - 10/10/2011 07:46:22 AM 564 Views
Guess I count myself among those fools, though I pretty much agree with Danny. - 10/10/2011 10:52:11 AM 466 Views
I don't usually answer your scattershot rants, Joel, but you have overextended yourself. - 10/10/2011 05:28:07 PM 508 Views
That still looks like Stalin and Mao rationalizing away the impossibility of their stated goals. - 11/10/2011 05:59:06 AM 514 Views
No time to today, but you're very wrong. - 11/10/2011 02:32:38 PM 402 Views
OK. - 11/10/2011 03:08:17 PM 388 Views
You really should read more about the Soviet Union. - 11/10/2011 03:19:32 PM 470 Views
Not sure it would change my perceptions. - 11/10/2011 03:41:08 PM 376 Views
In a single word: No. - 11/10/2011 08:26:36 AM 398 Views

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