Active Users:192 Time:02/06/2024 01:49:46 PM
I apologize. I can't read that. *NM* nossy Send a noteboard - 25/02/2012 10:21:09 PM
Only exasperation with the "anything goes" philosophy, particularly used to excuse being too intellectually and spiritually lazy to pick a belief system and ride it.

I'm going to really regret asking you this, but why can't I be more relaxed about what I believe? Why do I have to be so SURE and completely invested? I like questioning what I believe, and I absolutely refuse to believe that I know better than someone else. And it doesn't mean I intend to change for them either.

Uncertainty, even outright confusion, IS perfectly valid; advocating or promoting it with bumperstickers and T-shirts reminds me of that "not only maybe, but HELL, maybe!" line moondog likes so much. It is fine to say one does not know, more honest and respectful, IMHO, than DECLARING not only ones own ignorance, but everyone elses, too. Yes, you, I and many others know better than people who think eating OTHER people, stoning them for their sexuality, gunning them down over drug money, lynching them because of their race etc. is also "fine." There is no cause to be embarrassed or apologetic about that, quite the opposite, in fact, because pretending otherwise for the sake of some well meaning but misguided notion of tolerance just concedes such brutality is legitimate when it is not.

And I don't think you understand that "Coexist" concept at all. Not what someone who would actually have the bumper sticker would think it means, anyway.

I understand the concept; again, I support bona fide ecumenicalism backed by knowledge and understanding of both ones own beliefs and those of others. What I oppose is the smug attitude I see all the time whereby people ignore complex challenging questions and smugly assume not bothering to investigate or even ask them constitutes a superior belief based on the notion superior beliefs are impossible. While disgustingly common, that is not even internally consistent; in a very real sense, I have more respect for cannibals. Their beliefs are still morally bankrupt and repugnant, but at least have a kind of logic, and lack hypocrisy.

Understand, I do not claim all the answers either, but consider that motive to search harder rather than justification for not bothering. Arguing the latter is not only ignorance masquerading as wisdom, but excuses even the most heinous acts on the grounds their legitimacy is solely a matter of interpretation. I may not be able to list everything that is right, but some things are indisputably wrong irrespective of personal beliefs.

Real tolerance is valid and valuable; just because someone is horribly, terribly and sincerely wrong does not make them any less a human being, and the constructive response to such glaring destructive error is to correct it, not condemn the human being as irredeemable. However, in many cases that brings to mind another classic line: If you are not angry, you are not paying attention. People still have every right to not pay attention, however much I wish they would, and even to encourage equal obliviousness in others, but I have just as much right, as well as a duty, to DISCOURAGE that obliviousness as the harmful phenonemon it is.

"People like me" (a quintessentially tolerant phrase, yes? ;)) are not the reason the Mid-East is at war, but such cavalier comments, made as if they grant supposedly impossible superiority, are the reason there probably always will be. Some times there are no good guys, sometimes there are no bad guys and sometimes there are none of either. However, sometimes there are guys whose behavior is undeniably bad, and pretending educating ones daughter for literacy and EXECUTING her for it are equally valid depending on ones cultural norm only ensures each remains equally prevalent. That is not "enlightened," but "counterproductive."
Reply to message
For my fellow Grammar Nazis - 23/02/2012 07:12:33 PM 732 Views
I like that. *NM* - 23/02/2012 07:33:11 PM 184 Views
Nice. *NM* - 23/02/2012 07:46:08 PM 185 Views
Yes, indeed! *NM* - 23/02/2012 07:51:37 PM 186 Views
*NM* - 23/02/2012 11:30:41 PM 178 Views
I saw that several days ago. - 23/02/2012 11:59:32 PM 422 Views
We are going to need a bigger bumper. - 24/02/2012 05:33:44 PM 467 Views
lol intolerance *NM* - 24/02/2012 09:10:34 PM 174 Views
Not intolerance. - 24/02/2012 11:06:08 PM 592 Views
"Coexisting" = "no belief system?" - 25/02/2012 01:10:04 AM 362 Views
What? - 25/02/2012 11:46:12 AM 459 Views
"What?" indeed. - 25/02/2012 05:02:32 PM 485 Views
I apologize. I can't read that. *NM* - 25/02/2012 10:21:09 PM 231 Views
What can I say? Keeping it short and to the point was clearly not CONVEYING the point. - 27/02/2012 06:17:14 AM 410 Views
I feel bad about what I said before, so here it is: - 27/02/2012 12:43:54 PM 402 Views
Re: I feel bad about what I said before, so here it is: - 27/02/2012 03:24:45 PM 449 Views
Re: I feel bad about what I said before, so here it is: - 27/02/2012 08:40:16 PM 405 Views
Also, I'm done here. It doesn't matter if we agree, and these sorts of conversations are - 27/02/2012 08:41:13 PM 387 Views
Sorry, but is a matter of both principle and survival to me. - 27/02/2012 10:43:56 PM 393 Views
No hard feelings, - 28/02/2012 12:10:07 AM 458 Views
Cool. - 02/03/2012 05:27:23 AM 375 Views
lol strawman - 27/02/2012 11:01:32 AM 384 Views
I have known lots of people who believe that; some even realize they believe it. - 27/02/2012 02:31:48 PM 427 Views
lol false dichotomy - 27/02/2012 06:46:36 PM 519 Views
That's what I was going to say. - 27/02/2012 10:05:51 PM 374 Views
As long as it is qualified, I have no objection. - 27/02/2012 11:09:04 PM 517 Views
Dont quote Nietzsche. You dont understand him. *NM* - 27/02/2012 10:34:08 PM 172 Views
I understand him well enough. - 27/02/2012 11:10:21 PM 413 Views
He did not favor moral relativism and he very much railed against nihilism. *NM* - 27/02/2012 11:13:46 PM 188 Views
Meh and again I say, "meh." - 27/02/2012 11:50:35 PM 423 Views
Like I said. You don't understand Nietzsche *NM* - 27/02/2012 11:59:50 PM 268 Views
Like I said, meh. - 02/03/2012 09:31:43 AM 320 Views
Re: For my fellow Grammar Nazis - 29/02/2012 05:27:27 AM 432 Views
I feed my alot a special diet of alot pellets. - 02/03/2012 05:05:22 AM 445 Views
So this site is just the reposting of really old internet memes? *NM* - 02/03/2012 01:51:26 AM 202 Views

Reply to Message