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"Conservative" and "liberal" seem like perfect antonyms to me. Joel Send a noteboard - 29/09/2009 05:22:36 PM

To be fair, I had to look them up myself, but all the economic hallmarks of economic liberalism are part and parcel of what we style "fiscal conservatism. " Which frankly makes more sense to me; if "curtailing red tape, privatizations, deregulation, curtailing public subsidies, and a reform of collective bargaining laws" is "liberal" now, does that make socialism "conservative"? In what world does that make sense...? :confused:

The logical opposite of "conservative" would be "progressive", not "liberal", and it makes perfect sense that a more pro-free-market stance is "liberal".

Incidentally, in certain parts of Europe, not so much Germany perhaps but France for instance, the socialist movement is certainly conservative: stuck in the past, defending past achievements at all costs and strongly resistant to change (except with regards to certain evolutions like LGBT rights). Between Sarkozy's UMP and the opposition PS, the former is more right-wing, but the latter is a lot more conservative.

The opposite of "progressive" would be more like "traditional. " Regardless, I don't think a move in the direction of the failed laissez-faire policies of Dickensian Europe or Carnegies America constitute "progress" and IIRC the "progressive" movements of the time (in particular Americas Progressive Party) stood in strong opposition to them and for labor reform and rights. Seems like revisionist history to me, and it seems there's been a lot of it the past few decades, perhaps in the hopes that now that everyone who lived through those horrors is dead the rest of us will ignorantly allow their reanimation as "innovation. "
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First Germany, next Great Britain - trzaska2000 - 27/09/2009 11:24:48 PM 795 Views
Your terminology is confusing... Legolas - 27/09/2009 11:40:38 PM 488 Views
He's speaking in American terms. Joel - 28/09/2009 12:42:57 AM 508 Views
As I said. Confusing terminology. Legolas - 28/09/2009 11:32:46 AM 559 Views
"Conservative" and "liberal" seem like perfect antonyms to me. Joel - 29/09/2009 05:22:36 PM 568 Views
That'd be because you are american Floffe - 29/09/2009 07:13:09 PM 444 Views
What Floffe said. Legolas - 29/09/2009 07:31:51 PM 528 Views
I disagree Roland00 - 29/09/2009 09:25:37 PM 379 Views
Sorry, do you think Labour is a liberal party? *NM* Tim - 27/09/2009 11:42:26 PM 244 Views
Yes I do. Left-wing Liberals, the very worst of both worlds. *NM* Wibble - 27/09/2009 11:58:24 PM 266 Views
Ooo, Germany- ßelals Girl - 28/09/2009 12:19:40 AM 531 Views
Edumacate yourself! Joel - 28/09/2009 12:39:09 AM 483 Views
Well ironclad - 28/09/2009 08:42:29 AM 505 Views
wtf The Shrike - 28/09/2009 01:26:18 PM 638 Views
I know, I know ßelals Girl - 28/09/2009 09:01:17 PM 356 Views
I've got something for your cuteness list ironclad - 29/09/2009 08:35:30 AM 520 Views
Awww, let's hug him! ßelals Girl - 29/09/2009 06:26:44 PM 376 Views
Him?? ironclad - 29/09/2009 08:55:03 PM 436 Views
Well, he's the one with the cute last name! ßelals Girl - 29/09/2009 09:24:34 PM 360 Views
I am more thinking we will have to spray you with a riot hose *NM* Roland00 - 29/09/2009 09:27:10 PM 199 Views
Thats...uh.....crazy talk *NM* ßelals Girl - 29/09/2009 09:32:14 PM 238 Views
Is it really? Roland00 - 29/09/2009 09:33:32 PM 477 Views
Re: Is it really? ßelals Girl - 29/09/2009 09:35:48 PM 377 Views
For some reason, I read that as "spay you"... TaskmasterJack - 29/09/2009 10:24:20 PM 542 Views
Owie *NM* ßelals Girl - 29/09/2009 10:32:37 PM 262 Views
Won't be effective, just because she can't breed won't stop her fervent efforts from trying Roland00 - 29/09/2009 10:38:43 PM 497 Views
For an older gentleman, Guido Westerwelle isn't so bad looking Roland00 - 29/09/2009 03:20:17 PM 481 Views
He's handsome, if a bit bland-looking ßelals Girl - 29/09/2009 06:19:33 PM 377 Views
We still like you, we just don't want to do you Roland00 - 29/09/2009 06:25:09 PM 374 Views
You only say that because he is gay ironclad - 29/09/2009 08:57:13 PM 371 Views
Also what I read about the fdp in summary Roland00 - 29/09/2009 09:18:11 PM 322 Views
Brown is not a liberal by any possible stretch of the term or imagination. Werthead - 28/09/2009 01:48:17 AM 436 Views
you're such a complete sheep. *NM* temeraire - 28/09/2009 02:18:14 AM 314 Views
It doesn't make that much of a difference who is in charge anyway ironclad - 28/09/2009 08:41:55 AM 443 Views
According to an analysis that I read in the NYT, it may. The Shrike - 28/09/2009 01:24:05 PM 358 Views
That same article says radical changes are unlikely, though. Legolas - 28/09/2009 01:43:30 PM 569 Views
No one said there would be radical changes. But there will be changes The Shrike - 28/09/2009 01:56:01 PM 453 Views
Merkel is further to the left than most if not all Democrats in government here in the US. The Shrike - 28/09/2009 01:25:09 PM 501 Views
In comparison, that's true of course *NM* ironclad - 28/09/2009 01:35:35 PM 256 Views
He is quite ignorant. The Shrike - 28/09/2009 01:41:54 PM 400 Views
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