To say I am conflicted about this would be an understatement.
Joel Send a noteboard - 25/12/2012 02:27:47 AM
Before you laugh too hard though, remember that is because last generations ideologues, many of whom WERE quite radical, made that an easy way for Reagan and Co. to discredit the whole party. After the pounding Mondale and Dukakis took the pragmatists who believed in nothing but winning took control to gain election victories they quickly mooted. The Tea Party is putting Republicans through the first phase of that now; RINOs are not the past: They are the future.
I agree. The Tea Party and hard-right social cons are not the future. Our problem is that they are trying to hold onto the present and things need to change. Remember, I am a partisan, not an ideologue. If something is causing us to lose, it needs to change. There is no virtue in losing. People that are satisfied with getting nothing in pursuit of the perfect piss me off.
Our key is to make inroads with the Hispanic population. Rubio and Cruz have great ideas and it's time for the party to embrace them. Throw in a true leader like Christie, and the future is bright.
There is little indication many GOP voters see it as you and most of the party leadership do; indeed, far less of the party leadership agrees specifically because the voters have replaced so many of its moderates with their fellow radicals. I almost pity Boehner; he is working hard to reach a budget compromise with Obama to salvage his partys last vestige of credibility with the public and, oh, btw, PREVENT THE US DECLARING BANKRUPTCY, and his fellow House Republicans are "rewarding" him by cutting the legs from beneath his budget bill and trying to yank the Speakers gavel from him. You are absolutely right about the way forward for the GOP, but I am not sure the base sees it. Just two years ago Rubio was a Tea Party darling; now he is the voice of reason trying to pull them back from the brink.
The problem, one Dem elder statesman know well, is that it is all well and good for the leaders to talk the moderate talk and even walk the walk, but if the voters insist on nominating radicals anyway it does not matter. It is not as simple as just ramming a soulless Romney or Kerry down their throats secure in the knowledge they will vote for the nominee just to prevent the other party winning. The GOP primary system is more conducive to it than the Dems (though not as much so as before the Dems set up Super Tuesday to minimize voter input in presidential nominations,) but the GOPs biggest asset is now proving something of an Achilles heel: Republican voters VOTE, consistently, rain or shine, and fairly monolithically. If they all show up and demand a radical, that is who will be nominated.
I honestly do not know how to feel about that. On the one hand, both wings of the GOP disgust me for different reasons, so part of me is happy to watch them shoot their own toes off one by one. On the other hand, the old GOP mantra that "if you stand for nothing you will fall for anything" contains a lot of truth. When the Dems turned their back on the left for the New/No Left to win elections, what did Dem voters and the nation get for it? We wound up sitting here 15 years later arguing whom is to blame for a NAFTA, WTO and Gramm-Leach-Blilely act both Congressional Republicans and the Democratic president eagerly enacted for the same reasons. What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? What good is victory and consequent authority at the cost of forsaking the ultimate goals of both?
Since Dems trod that path a generation ago and Republicans must follow to remain viable, in a few years there may be NO ideologues, only partisans contesting who gets credit/blame for identical policy. Often, it has seemed like that is exactly what has happened throughout Obamas first term:
The Heritage Foundation and American Enterprise Institute reject Hillarycare and propose a national mandate for people to buy private insurance, but lambast their own proposal as socialism when a Dem president pushes it instead (while both parties incidentally dismiss ACTUAL socialized medicine.)
Big Business execs bankrupt feloniously bankrupt their own firms and Obama hands them a taxpayer bailout instead of sending them to jail, in the "finest" tradition of deregulated trickle down policy, but Republicans call it socialism.
Obama insists on preserving all the middle class tax breaks Gingrich fought for in the '90s and Bush in the aughts, and Republicans attack them as the reason 47% of America pays no taxes.
This is like Iran going to war with Israel over which one gets the privilege of bombing Palestine. I believe the line was, "Whether the bear beats the wolf or the wolf beats the bear, the rabbit always loses."
I doubt the GOP base will let cooler heads prevail; again, they show no sign of doing so. Most will never warm up to any immigration reform except border fences and deportation anyway, which is demographic suicide for the GOP. Bringing back total abortion bans is not where the country is at either, but is clearly where the GOP base is. Gay marriage is quickly moving toward the same paradigm. Third Way triangulation is not just about shedding a radical image, but jogging so far toward the center opposition is only possible from the edges, so Republicans face the unenviable choice of either conceding issues to No Left Dems (risking the bases wrath in the process) or drifting so far right they are marginalized.
Rather than a more moderate GOP, it may be more likely to expect that the next decades major parties will be the Dems and Libs, agreed on socially liberal issues and debating just how conservative our public programs, taxes and spending should be. Which might be just as well for you ideologically, if not partisanly.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Community Reinvestment Act formally linked to the Sub-Prime/Mortgage Crisis -
- 22/12/2012 09:01:56 PM
354 Views
- 22/12/2012 09:01:56 PM
354 Views
Did you see the part of the graph where higher debt leveled off in '98 and stayed there 2 years?
- 23/12/2012 04:13:01 AM
251 Views
Oh yeah, one of Bill Clinton's last acts as President
- 23/12/2012 02:47:23 PM
154 Views
... was signing a bill authored by three Republicans and passed with only ONE Dem Senators vote.
- 23/12/2012 11:37:10 PM
267 Views
Nice try - the repeal was all Clinton and Rubin.....buck stops with the leader.
- 24/12/2012 03:44:53 AM
136 Views
So the three Republicans who WROTE the bill are blameless; the guy who signed it is at fault.
- 24/12/2012 05:33:21 AM
254 Views
"Before you laugh too hard".....
- 24/12/2012 11:32:45 PM
232 Views
To say I am conflicted about this would be an understatement.
- 25/12/2012 02:27:47 AM
247 Views
Also, did you just paraphrase Bill Clintons argument for Robamacare?!
- 25/12/2012 03:36:37 AM
220 Views
- 25/12/2012 03:36:37 AM
220 Views
I've been trying to explain this to people for years.
- 26/12/2012 02:54:04 PM
140 Views
You and most of the GOP, but the facts do not support that narrative.
- 26/12/2012 05:54:28 PM
231 Views
Glass-Stegal was not repealed in a vacuum. There were many other regulatory changes
- 26/12/2012 07:40:45 PM
135 Views
I know the narrative; the facts still do not support it.
- 26/12/2012 08:43:25 PM
213 Views
Only when you ignore half of them.
- 27/12/2012 03:33:53 PM
121 Views
The entire "logic" ignores the most salient fact in the whole discussion.
- 28/12/2012 02:34:12 PM
224 Views
Your focus on that bill is the error.
- 28/12/2012 04:47:03 PM
241 Views
Any stats showing a disproportionate number of Fannie/Freddie defaults were by minorities?
- 28/12/2012 05:50:01 PM
244 Views
It has got NOTHING to do with skin color, the only color that should matter in banking is green.
- 28/12/2012 09:36:34 PM
151 Views
It should not, no, but the GOP dog whistles demonstrate it does.
- 28/12/2012 10:49:34 PM
129 Views
Get over YOUR perception that I give a damn about anyone's genetic background. I don't.
- 29/12/2012 04:18:22 PM
259 Views
Your incredible knowledge on this would fill a thimble. There were MULTIPLE issues>
- 28/12/2012 09:50:17 PM
272 Views
I love that part, too: "What Carter did in the '70s caused the subprime mortgage crisis in 2005."
- 28/12/2012 10:32:17 PM
128 Views
The policy began in the 70s, was MASIVELY expanded in the 90s, and blew up in the 00s.
- 29/12/2012 04:43:26 PM
234 Views
CRA was a disaster for the nation.....go ahead, you can admit it.
- 26/12/2012 08:32:33 PM
151 Views
The facts are in the graph in the article, and do not support that narrative.
- 26/12/2012 08:44:23 PM
214 Views
The facts support it perfectly. You vs. reality is the problem here. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 09:51:45 PM
54 Views
It is a pure causation line, get over it.
- 27/12/2012 03:35:19 PM
136 Views
Our Second Amendment discussions disqualify you as an authority on causality.
- 28/12/2012 02:58:04 PM
232 Views
I couldn't care less about party they both screwed up repeatedly.
- 28/12/2012 04:50:25 PM
112 Views
Then why do you insist on blaming Barney Frank exclusively?
- 28/12/2012 05:54:48 PM
232 Views
Because he is the person most responsible for forcing banks to lower lending standards. *NM*
- 28/12/2012 06:49:28 PM
129 Views
No he is not. It began in the 90s, well before he became chairman of the house commitee. *NM*
- 28/12/2012 09:57:02 PM
84 Views
Right, a guy who was only part of the House majority for two years did it all.
- 28/12/2012 11:03:08 PM
230 Views
I blame Barny for the under colateralization of F&F that he allowed and blocking the audit.
- 28/12/2012 09:54:27 PM
116 Views
Even were the charge valid (it is not,) if you believe it the crisis' main cause naught can help you
- 28/12/2012 11:00:14 PM
129 Views
The debate on comparative financial policies of the parties belongs elsewhere. lets keep on point.
- 29/12/2012 04:15:13 PM
130 Views
