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As I already told you, this is not about "the left" complaining. Legolas Send a noteboard - 02/10/2009 03:38:15 PM
You think Palin was chosen because of the current poison in the political environment? How is that? Why was that moron Biden chosen? Because Obama wanted someone so stupid no one would be willing to impeach him?

No, I think there were of course several reasons why Palin was chosen, but those reasons wouldn't have been enough to overcome her lack of experience in the past. Now they were. And before you start, yes, some of those reasons are similar to the reasons why Obama won the Democratic nomination - charisma, being able to motivate people, and the like. In the past, there are examples of popular people without much experience actually becoming president - Ulysses Grant comes to mind - but for such people to be *selected* (rather than elected like a presidential candidate) as VP candidates is a more recent thing.
As I said in my reply to Roland all of this wailing about how mean and petty politics has gotten is nothing more then the left complaining that the beast the rode into town has in part turned on them and they have very little tolerance for criticism. The media still plays along with them for the most part but there are too many parts they can't control and those parts don't always play nice.

Yes and no. Yes, in the sense that the left has had an unpleasant surprise after what they thought was an anomalous presidency, Bush's, instead turned out to be part of a trend. Bush's ultra-narrow election victory in 2000 was of course a dramatic event that would have been polarizing in the best of circumstances, and 9/11 and other events kept the polarization going - wars have a way of doing that. So I think a lot of people expected things to be somewhat calmer under Obama - not that Republicans would love him or that he'd magically make everyone more bipartisan, but that he'd be a less polarizing president than Bush, considering his election victory was a clear one. Instead, the polarization has only grown sharper, and the trends started under Bush or even Clinton have continued full speed.

No, in the sense that it's not just about the left. Despite Bush's very narrow victory in 2000, the rhetoric and atmosphere in the beginning of his presidency was not this bad. Things *are* getting worse, and if they continue to do so much longer, ugly things will happen. The left has of course benefited from this kind of ugly politics in the past, as a Republican was president for the past eight years when these things started exacerbating rapidly, so then a lot of it was aimed at him. But it would be a serious mistake to dismiss the warnings of Friedman and others now as nothing more than left-wing whining about getting back what they dished out. This atmosphere is a threat to the entire political system in the long run, not just to president Obama or the Democratic party. As I've already mentioned in another post in this thread, I give credit where credit is due to those who have done their part in countering this atmosphere, with Senator Graham as an example. But it's going to take more than that.
I will believe they are sincere about changing the tone when they do more then complain about how they are being attacked. Let then step up and call foul when the other side is unfairly attacked and I may begin to accept the idea that this is more than theater. When the one of the champions of the “change the tone” campaign goes around implying her opponent are Nazis because of one sign someone carried at a rally I tend to doubt their sincerity.

:rolleyes: That idiotic claim that you keep making even though you know it's wrong - knew it was wrong even before that one thread in which I discovered what Pelosi had really said and pointed out how nonsensical your claim really was - is really not helping your credibility, or your ability to take the high ground and demand signs of goodwill from leftwing politicians.

And you will notice that Friedman wasn't pointing fingers at any one side or politician, and pointed out that this is a phenomenon going back 20 years, even if it's getting gradually worse, and even if many on the left were partially blinded to how bad it has gotten by their belief that Bush was an anomaly, that it was possible to calm down a bit with the next president.
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Where Did "We" Go? - 01/10/2009 09:30:12 PM 696 Views
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Just some kid - 01/10/2009 11:31:46 PM 427 Views
How do you change this though? - 01/10/2009 10:51:10 PM 329 Views
Good question. - 01/10/2009 11:06:10 PM 321 Views
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Pelosi is part of the problem - 01/10/2009 11:10:45 PM 318 Views
She's a good example of two wrongs don't make a right. - 01/10/2009 11:31:29 PM 312 Views
that was hyperbole, as he's said OVER AND OVER - 02/10/2009 06:21:16 PM 297 Views
really which elected leaders on the right talked about death panels? - 02/10/2009 06:41:05 PM 318 Views
Dumb column from Friedman.....read a history book..... - 01/10/2009 11:15:46 PM 338 Views
politcas has always been a full contact sport - 01/10/2009 11:40:19 PM 306 Views
I disagree, obviously. - 02/10/2009 12:11:48 AM 402 Views
No, it hasn't always been like this; I think Watergate changed it, and maybe Vietnam. - 02/10/2009 02:13:07 AM 402 Views
remarkably, i agree with the troll - 02/10/2009 06:27:40 AM 332 Views
Partisanship, yes, but this is more than that. - 02/10/2009 06:57:14 AM 397 Views
Not true - 02/10/2009 12:32:58 AM 324 Views
why did we fight the Spanish American War and the War of 1812 again? - 02/10/2009 04:18:56 AM 285 Views
You just completely undermined your point - 02/10/2009 06:22:54 AM 335 Views
No you simply missed the point - 02/10/2009 02:40:30 PM 325 Views
don't forget - 02/10/2009 06:50:17 PM 286 Views
I didn't forget it, it was in my first line for part A - 03/10/2009 12:53:18 AM 317 Views
honest??? - 02/10/2009 06:46:30 PM 290 Views
all things are relative - 02/10/2009 10:11:27 PM 294 Views
maybe we should go back to the good old days of Aaron Burr - 02/10/2009 06:25:37 PM 329 Views
I think the role of cable news is over played - 01/10/2009 11:29:26 PM 328 Views
Possibly. - 02/10/2009 12:02:05 AM 337 Views
To many people distrust the media for it to be just the right who distrust them - 02/10/2009 04:15:50 AM 381 Views
Why thoughts on British politics - 02/10/2009 01:55:59 AM 335 Views
i agree that the fringe has way more power than it should, but... - 02/10/2009 06:38:41 AM 323 Views
I think Friedman puts it very well when he says... - 02/10/2009 11:24:02 AM 296 Views
did I read this correctly? - 02/10/2009 03:00:33 PM 325 Views
As I already told you, this is not about "the left" complaining. - 02/10/2009 03:38:15 PM 409 Views
it didn't become an issue until it started hurting the left - 02/10/2009 04:44:29 PM 301 Views
Eh, many aspects of it have been criticized for a long time. - 02/10/2009 09:12:22 PM 362 Views
a few points - 02/10/2009 11:23:12 PM 546 Views
Re: a few points - 03/10/2009 12:52:03 AM 457 Views
one final point - 03/10/2009 06:48:09 AM 286 Views
Is it that bad ? - 02/10/2009 06:06:34 PM 290 Views
No, where did common sense go? - 02/10/2009 10:27:22 PM 314 Views

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