Active Users:426 Time:16/05/2024 05:29:03 PM
4E is poor. PATHFINDER is better, although not as radical as perhaps it should have been. Werthead Send a noteboard - 26/10/2009 05:05:18 PM
I've been with the game since 2E and there was a lot of resistance in the group to going over to 3E, but in the end we found it to be a superior game. We also play a lot of non-D&D games as well like DEADLANDS, TRAVELLER, STAR WARS d6, WORLD OF DARKNESS (which I don't like very much, but we still play from time to time to keep the vampire fans in the group happy) and a few other D20 games like JUDGE DREDD and BABYLON 5.

When 4E came along we were quite startled at how lame it was. We pondered the resistance to change thing, but we'd been happy to move from 2E to 3E after a decade spent playing that and, being older with less free time, we hadn't played anywhere near as much 3E as we had 2E, so we weren't as invested in the game. If 4E had been good, we'd have had no trouble switching over. Some of the ideas, like different combat options and better balancing of the wizard at every level, aren't too bad, but just shambolically implemented.

The biggest problem is that there is no non-crunch justification of the rules. Healing surges are nonsensical, and reminiscent of that increasingly sad tendency for computer games to have you diving behind a wall for five seconds and magically repairing damage from machine guns and grenades. Stuff happens 'just because' rather than there being a logical reason for it. The arbritary nature of the rules is something 2E was criticised for and 3E made a big thing of getting rid of them and having explanations for every rule in the game, so 4E is a huge backwards step on that front.

Our group also plays the game fairly 'realistically'. We have house rules for how armour absorbs damage (rather than making you harder to hit) and that armour has its own set of hit points, which you have to go and repair after battles, which is fairly realistic. We also have rules for friendly fire in melee, so you can't just use overwhelming missile fire to bring down the enemy whilst the tanks stand up front and absorb the punishment (a favoured tactic of some groups and in some of the 2E and 3E-based computer games). 4E is very much the antithesis of realism-focused roleplaying. Still, we played it for about 3 months before concluding it was bobbins, so we gave it a fair enough shakedown, I think.

PATHFINDER is much better than either 3E or 4E, but it does have it's own problems. They've fiddled with the classes and brought in different EXP tables, but balancing is still a huge problem, and as far as I can tell at high levels wizards and then clerics will still dominate the game to an unhealthy extent over non-magic-users. There are ways they could fix that within the 3E framework, but they seemed to settle on the side of being conservative and not offending the hardcore 3E players who like that stuff (i.e. the wizard-players).
This message last edited by Werthead on 26/10/2009 at 05:08:43 PM
Reply to message
What REAL games do you like? (computer/video games don't count) - 20/10/2009 07:06:58 PM 1007 Views
Carcassonne - 20/10/2009 07:24:00 PM 708 Views
My own list - 20/10/2009 07:41:40 PM 769 Views
Wow, do you own a game store or something? - 20/10/2009 08:28:02 PM 791 Views
Out of curiosity... - 20/10/2009 07:50:14 PM 739 Views
Multiplayer video games are social as well. I just don't have friends who play them. - 21/10/2009 04:59:55 PM 714 Views
Fair enough. *NM* - 21/10/2009 09:31:24 PM 334 Views
Maiden's Kiss and games that don't involve any clothes - 20/10/2009 08:25:13 PM 842 Views
Texas Hold'em is only good if you get a big group together. - 21/10/2009 05:08:10 PM 669 Views
I enjoy most games. - 20/10/2009 08:29:28 PM 711 Views
Re: I enjoy most games. - 21/10/2009 02:51:05 PM 668 Views
Well... - 21/10/2009 05:44:40 PM 696 Views
Re: Well... - 21/10/2009 07:25:50 PM 720 Views
I'm getting ready for Candyland myself - 21/10/2009 05:09:20 PM 668 Views
Ping pong. *NM* - 20/10/2009 10:24:01 PM 349 Views
How I read that subject bar - 20/10/2009 11:49:26 PM 866 Views
As an answer, though - 21/10/2009 12:18:18 AM 700 Views
Ah, forgot about Apples to Apples! Great game. *NM* - 21/10/2009 01:10:46 AM 343 Views
I just learned a few new ones at a family reunion - 21/10/2009 03:08:08 AM 715 Views
My Uncle had the triangle with the holes and the golf tees at his house - 02/11/2009 07:47:23 PM 918 Views
Some of mine - 21/10/2009 10:32:13 AM 719 Views
Re: What REAL games do you like? (computer/video games don't count) - 21/10/2009 02:48:42 PM 715 Views
I hear there is a lot of resistance to 4th Edition D&D - 21/10/2009 05:04:07 PM 682 Views
Re: I hear there is a lot of resistance to 4th Edition D&D - 21/10/2009 07:23:56 PM 725 Views
4E is poor. PATHFINDER is better, although not as radical as perhaps it should have been. - 26/10/2009 05:05:18 PM 720 Views
On 4th Edition... - 21/10/2009 09:41:43 PM 659 Views
Re: On 4th Edition... - 23/10/2009 02:30:29 PM 757 Views
Axis and Allies - 27/10/2009 04:04:50 AM 753 Views
Are you playing with the revised setup for Pacific? - 27/10/2009 09:29:53 PM 835 Views
Hm, what do we have... - 02/11/2009 07:45:19 PM 933 Views

Reply to Message