Active Users:260 Time:12/05/2024 06:12:41 AM
Re: Or there's plan B, probably just as likely lilltempest Send a noteboard - 12/05/2010 06:53:54 PM


Other possibilities involve some secrets we don't know yet of concerning the Portal Stones. Jordan indirectly revealed that either the Finns can use them, or they have another way to reach various worlds other than their own and the human one.

I would not be surprised their presence is linked one way or another to the presence of the Finns or the Portal Stones (the only in-between worlds portal we know the reason for are the Ways... created using the results of research on the Portal Stones...) My suspicion is that the departure of the Ogier (and their stedding) is linked to the "healing of the bore". I suspect that the event that brought the Ogier and the Finns in contact with this world is linked to the apparition of a weakness in the Pattern that slowly built up until at the end of the last Age Beidomon's team found it and bored into it. There's also the fact the Portal Stones were made by those who "knew the numbers of chaos", and chaos has a very bad name in WOT. The Portal Stones may have caused a collision of some kind between worlds, opening a path to the realms of the Finns (who put a door on this bore, ie: the ToG) and translating bits from the Ogier realm into this world (with Ogier in them). It may be that the Ogier must leave, so one day the worlds can collide again and this "chaos" can cause the weakness that will be bored into, and similarly it may be that the real reason Mat must face the Finns again is to close their connection with this world, and the Stedding must disappear (and the Ways must be totally closed off), so order between the worlds is restored and the conditions are there for the Pattern to return to its pre-weakness state, with the worlds only connected through tel'aran'rhiod, before the cycle happens again in the next turning.

The connections to other worlds may be part of the "rubble" Rand needs to clear up to seal off Shai'tan from Creation.

It would be very much like Jordan to reveal a kind of chain of causes and effects in the finale. Fel hinted at that: for the Bore to be drilled once more in the next turning, it must be healed at some point in the Seven Ages. Since Jordan also said this Third Age is no different from previous ones, it would be logical that the Bore can't be drilled in other Ages than the end of the AOL, so the weakness might need to disappear as well, and come back again at the right time.


I like most of this and believe you're onto something with the portal stones/Finn/Ogier and how Rand must proceed. I think the connections to all worlds other than the world in which they reside must be broken before the Pattern can be Healed (and think that, once that is done, Rand needs to break the seals, to clear the "last bit" of rubble so the Pattern can use the ta'veren effects of Rand, Mat, and Perrin to Heal itself). The only thing I would add to what you have said is that access to Tel'aran'rhiod is a part of that "rubble". For the sake of the Pattern's stability, I don't think anyone should be able to willfully touch any world outside of his or her own world.

Personally, I think it should go one of two ways: either Rand realizes what must be done and finds the key to stopping people from willfully accessing TAR (I think that people will also stop "accidentally" dreaming themselves into TAR once the Pattern is Healed) or once the weakness in the Pattern is healed, Tel'aran'rhiod will no longer be accessible to anyone. Since the World of Dreams touches every world, it stands to reason that it was the weakness in the Pattern that allowed people to access it. I also think the Talent of Dreaming should disappear along with the Pattern being Healed. Why? That's simple (and I will preface this by saying it's all my opinion so I don't get accused of stating fact when I don't put that statement before each sentence!)...

Dreamers are somehow granted the Talent to "see" other worlds when they dream. Call it soul traveling, if you will, but they are able to glimpse into various possibilities when they are in a dream sleep. Unlike foretelling, where what the foreteller sees is set in stone and will definitely happen, a dreamer sees possibilities - things that may or may not happen. In essence, they are seeing what is happening in one of the portal stone worlds. The closer the world that they're glimpsing is to the world in which they live, the more likely the dream will actually occur. But even the dreams Egwene has dismissed as unimportant likely show us some hint as to things that are happening in the parallel worlds. Some worlds are just more likely than others. The dreams that dreamers recognize as "true" dreams come from the worlds that are closest to the one they are in...and the chances of those occurring are quite high. So, should Rand really have to do something to ensure that contact between worlds be destroyed, then dreamers will no longer receive glimpses into other worlds and the Talent will disappear. That leaves Dreamwalking...

Natural Dreamwalkers (I've always been of the opinion that Dreamwalking can be learned and once you have learned what is needed, you can access it without a ter'angreal, but it simply is not taught anymore) are not only able to enter and leave TAR at will but can also access the "space between" to spy on other people's dreams. Since TAR touches all worlds at once, if the only way to keep the Pattern stable is to ensure no one can touch other worlds, then access to TAR must be removed as well (that goes double for the "space between", in my opinion). It's possible that it was the first Dreamwalker, or the person who discovered Dreamwalking, who causes a breach in the Pattern to begin with (which somehow spawned the idea of portal stones and ter'angreal that take you outside of the Pattern like the rings at the WT!). Perhaps the person was attempting to find other worlds or perhaps she did so by accident, but I'd be willing to bet that forcing one's way into TAR was the first tiny little hole that eventually let to the Pattern weakening and gave Lanfear the ability to sense that there was another power to be had. I think that it was the weakening of the Pattern that allowed people who weren't even dreamwalkers to dream themselves into TAR.

So, if the Pattern is Healed - and Rand does what you said and manages to close off all access to other worlds - not only will that mean cutting off access to Finnland, the portal stone worlds, and the Ogier's real world, it should mean cutting off access to TAR as well. And the talent of Dreaming will disappear. That, I think, would make a great deal of sense.
Reply to message
Book of Translation and Ogier Gardners - 11/05/2010 05:14:06 AM 1340 Views
It seems clear... - 11/05/2010 11:36:10 AM 831 Views
Or there's plan B, probably just as likely - 11/05/2010 01:57:08 PM 907 Views
Re: Or there's plan B, probably just as likely - 12/05/2010 06:53:54 PM 631 Views
Decline? - 05/06/2010 03:32:48 PM 561 Views
Pug comes and takes them to Midkemia *NM* - 11/05/2010 02:52:14 PM 292 Views
indeed, the Ogier could rebuild Armengar *NM* - 11/05/2010 03:57:32 PM 296 Views
mmm elvandar. *NM* - 12/05/2010 05:22:31 PM 238 Views
My guess on how the system works. - 11/05/2010 06:28:43 PM 648 Views
Re: My guess on how the system works. - 11/05/2010 06:41:38 PM 702 Views
Re: My guess on how the system works. - 12/05/2010 07:19:38 AM 572 Views
I think the Seanchan Ogier - 12/05/2010 10:43:06 AM 570 Views
Re: My guess on how the system works. - 12/05/2010 01:41:27 PM 642 Views
Yep, you're both right - 06/06/2010 05:20:42 AM 567 Views

Reply to Message