Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
DomA Send a noteboard - 01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
She mentions it more than once.
You're not logical there. What do you think she'd know best: how strong someone has to be to operate the Bowl or how strong Nynaeve is? Why would she wonder if maybe Nynaeve could operate it on her own unless she wasn't more than guessing how strong exactly the operator needed to be? She certainly wasn't guessing about Nynaeve's strength...
Elayne couldn't do more than move the clouds a bit the only time she's tried the Bowl because she didn't know how it worked. The Windfinders did.
She probably wasn't strong enough either to operate it on her own, but that's a bit beside the point.
Nynaeve is significantly stronger than Elayne. It's perfectly well established, I'm not sure why you're making an issue out of it again. I get the idea of shifting away from the Asmodean issue, but you've picked another dead horse...
Brandon wasn't confused about Nyaneve (he was about Cyndane). On the older list that didn't yet include Sharina, Alivia etc., Brandon said Nynaeve stood alone at the top, significantly higher than Elayne and Egwene.
As for Nynaeve and her Well. She states quite clearly that the Well contains enough Saidar to lift both Rand and Lan up, but not quite enough to bring them back down. There is no reason to believe that she can't channel to her fullest (at the time) as in TGS she tells us flat out that the Guardians did not muck with her ability to channel, once she had the Power in her.
Again, there's two logical flaws in your reasonning:
1) You are assuming that Nynaeve would use her full strength to lift Rand and Lan? Why assume this? We don't know the size of her well - it may not even be big enough to handle her full strength. There was saidar enough in it to weave air to lift the pair, but not enough to do it twice, to bring them down. What does this tell us about Nynaeve's strength or the weight she can lift? Not much at all! Her limit is somewhere beyond Lan and Rand, but we have no idea what it is. As I said earlier, the well makes the scene impossible to use for that kind of comparisons. You're also forgetting about Nynaeve's sskill in handling Air vs. Egwene's and Elayne's (with the Windfinder, Elayne has trained to handle huge quantity of Air). There's more about lifting stuff than just raw strength. There's aptitude for Air too.
2) In TGS Nynaeve wasn't commenting about her strength, she was commenting about the fact the Guardian doesn't interfere in any way with weaving the Power. It blocks the Source and a gizmo can triangulate the location of someone who channels, that's all. Standing outside the perimeter with the CK, Rand could have balefired Far Madding any time. It's implied by Cadsuane (or Verin?) Raolin Darksbane used the OP against the city from outside the perimeter once.
I'm not familiar with the Brandon quote, but I would still question it since he wasn't even certain of Cyndane's strength until Maria corrected him. I'd also say that a 15-20% increase over Egwene/Elayne would qualify as "significant". If she was much more than that above them the various achievements don't really fit.
Their achievements had not much if anything to do with strength, beyond the fact they were strong enough to make those weaves... Many much weaker AS can too. Some Yellows much weaker than Nynaeve can do her healing too.
Very weak AS could make amazing discoveries. A lot of weaves aren't about strength but finesse and dexterity, or special skills. Leane was the second best after Egwene at making Cuendillar, and she's quite weak.
Their discoveries (not the Moghedien ones) have to do with skill/Talent, intelligence/creativity and the fact the "dangers of trying out stuff" has not been indoctrinated into them yet when they left the Tower. Another factor is that Moghedien showed them a hint of a much vaster world of channelling waiting to be rediscovered, and this stimulated them.
If you take the comparison to height (as Nynaeve does in TGS). Egwene would be 2x taller than a tall AS (let's say Merise) ... for ease let's say that makes her 12 feet tall (to Merise's 6). if Nynaeve is 20% taller that would make her 14'5" tall!
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Height? Why height? Theories about height vs. strength don't really work. It appears to be a coincidence that Rand and Lanfear are so tall.
Sammael was quite strong in the power, and yet he was really short.
Alivia is very strong for a woman yet short (barely taller than Nynaeve). Nynaeve is quite short. Moiraine used to be one of the strongest Aes Sedai, yet unless there's dwarf AS, she was probably one of the smallest sisters alive. Leane and Siuan's strengths were comparable, yet Leane is much taller.
Both Aliva and Nynaeve stand at the base of the top tier of AOL channellers (at least if the legend that the 13 surviving Forsaken were among the strongest people of their Age is more than a legend). They're not quite Mierins, but they're way above the median.
The Namelles were very tall, yet quite weak.
Balthamel went from a tall/muscled male body to a much frailer female body and can still channel the same volume of saidin...
Cyndane is short, yet still formidably strong for a woman.
There's no apparent corrolation between physical body and OP strength.
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
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I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
- 31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
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Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
- 31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
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Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
- 31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
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We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
- 31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
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again with the interpretive quoting
- 31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Individual interpretation is all we've got really
- 01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
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- 01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
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agreed, sort of
- 04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
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- 04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
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Consider this...
- 04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
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You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
- 04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
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Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
- 04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
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I'm denying that you have a clue
- 04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
- 04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
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then Nynaeve is the Creator
- 04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
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Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
- 04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
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The books disagree with this
- 04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
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Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
- 04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
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You are hilarious
- 04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
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Close the door on your way out...
- 04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
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no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
- 04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
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Re: agreed, sort of
- 04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
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- 04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
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this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
- 04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
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No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
- 01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
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Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
- 01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
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The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
- 01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
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nope
- 01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
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Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
- 01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
727 Views
I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
- 01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
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If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
- 01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
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Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
- 01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
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Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
- 31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
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Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
- 31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
609 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
631 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
501 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
513 Views
Remember gatways
- 31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
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I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
- 31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
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I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
- 01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
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I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
- 01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
678 Views
Strength is a touchy word in this case...
- 03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
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