this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
you put too much variance at the top and not enough in the middle for it to work. If Egwene was truly as low as you put her (and friends) there would be a ton more women between her and Moghedien. The fact that we have only see what 5 women in the series who fall between Egwene and Nynaeve is all I need to confirm that Nyna is closer to 95, Moghedien 85-90 and Egwene 75-80.
If you look at it from AS strength... there are clear levels.
Daigain = 1 unit of AS Strength (15)
Namelle Sisters = 1.5 unit of AS Strength (22 )
Verin = 2 units of AS Strength (30) ... slightly above average Sisters need margin above and below.
Sheriam = 2.5 unit of AS Strength (38 )
Moiraine = 3 units of AS Strength (45) ... Siuan's new strength is the key here
Kerene = 3.5 unit of AS Strength (53 )
Cadusane = 4 units of AS Strength (60) ... significantly stronger than Moiraine, but not at Egwene level
Bode = 4.5 unit of AS Strength (68 )
Egwene = 5 units of AS Strength (75) ... Amys + Melaine makes this her minimum since Melaine the weaker of the two, notes that she is stronger than most AS, 75 is the minimum here
Moghedien = 5.5 unit of AS Strength ( 83 )
Nyneave = 6 Units of AS Strength (90) Minimum level for Nynaeve IMO, she could easily be more like a 95
Alivia = 6.5 unit of AS Strength (98 )
Lanfear = 6.7 units of AS Strength (100) There is no way any of the FS could be more than this and have 3 women hold a shield on them reliably for a long period of time.
Obviously these are approximations, but it's pretty easy to map out since we know that Siuan is between 1/2 and 1/3 of her old strength, but not the weakest AS. We know Egwene is close to 2x Siuan, and that even the strongest female channelers cannot break through a shield held by 4 women of Daigian level (as evidenced by Semirhage). Even Rand was held by 4 women, who combined MAY have approached 10 Daigians, and we know that men have "several levels above women". Logain was held by 6 women in the same book and he's close to the max male strength... I'd write that off to knowing the weakest sisters wind up with the responsibility as Cadsuane implies later in the series ... so maybe about the same as the 4 women that held Rand?
Shannow relies too much on edited and interpreted quotes for me to even bother with him any more. So whatever... his posts just make me believe even more strongly in my point of view.
Things like his claim that OP Strength in women is a exact ... WRONG:
LOC
To Heal Again
"Everything goes into it," Siuan explained. "Who learned fastest, who spent the least time as novice and Accepted. There are all sorts of shadings. You can’t say precisely how strong anyone is. Two women might seem to be the same strength; maybe they are and maybe not, but the only way to say for certain would be a duel, and the Light be blessed, we’re above that. Unless Nynaeve returns us to our full strength, we run the risk of standing fairly low."
Drives me nuts when people edit quotes, ignore context and then draw conclusions/interpretations which they present as fact.
If you look at it from AS strength... there are clear levels.
Daigain = 1 unit of AS Strength (15)
Namelle Sisters = 1.5 unit of AS Strength (22 )
Verin = 2 units of AS Strength (30) ... slightly above average Sisters need margin above and below.
Sheriam = 2.5 unit of AS Strength (38 )
Moiraine = 3 units of AS Strength (45) ... Siuan's new strength is the key here
Kerene = 3.5 unit of AS Strength (53 )
Cadusane = 4 units of AS Strength (60) ... significantly stronger than Moiraine, but not at Egwene level
Bode = 4.5 unit of AS Strength (68 )
Egwene = 5 units of AS Strength (75) ... Amys + Melaine makes this her minimum since Melaine the weaker of the two, notes that she is stronger than most AS, 75 is the minimum here
Moghedien = 5.5 unit of AS Strength ( 83 )
Nyneave = 6 Units of AS Strength (90) Minimum level for Nynaeve IMO, she could easily be more like a 95
Alivia = 6.5 unit of AS Strength (98 )
Lanfear = 6.7 units of AS Strength (100) There is no way any of the FS could be more than this and have 3 women hold a shield on them reliably for a long period of time.
Obviously these are approximations, but it's pretty easy to map out since we know that Siuan is between 1/2 and 1/3 of her old strength, but not the weakest AS. We know Egwene is close to 2x Siuan, and that even the strongest female channelers cannot break through a shield held by 4 women of Daigian level (as evidenced by Semirhage). Even Rand was held by 4 women, who combined MAY have approached 10 Daigians, and we know that men have "several levels above women". Logain was held by 6 women in the same book and he's close to the max male strength... I'd write that off to knowing the weakest sisters wind up with the responsibility as Cadsuane implies later in the series ... so maybe about the same as the 4 women that held Rand?
Shannow relies too much on edited and interpreted quotes for me to even bother with him any more. So whatever... his posts just make me believe even more strongly in my point of view.
Things like his claim that OP Strength in women is a exact ... WRONG:
LOC
To Heal Again
"Everything goes into it," Siuan explained. "Who learned fastest, who spent the least time as novice and Accepted. There are all sorts of shadings. You can’t say precisely how strong anyone is. Two women might seem to be the same strength; maybe they are and maybe not, but the only way to say for certain would be a duel, and the Light be blessed, we’re above that. Unless Nynaeve returns us to our full strength, we run the risk of standing fairly low."
Drives me nuts when people edit quotes, ignore context and then draw conclusions/interpretations which they present as fact.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 04/06/2010 at 10:33:57 PM
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
1297 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
873 Views
I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
- 31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
767 Views
Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
- 31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
902 Views
Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
- 31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
829 Views
We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
- 31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
717 Views
again with the interpretive quoting
- 31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
749 Views
Individual interpretation is all we've got really
- 01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
692 Views
- 01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
692 Views
agreed, sort of
- 04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
708 Views
- 04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
708 Views
Consider this...
- 04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
673 Views
You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
- 04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
458 Views
Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
- 04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
588 Views
I'm denying that you have a clue
- 04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
639 Views
Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
- 04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
507 Views
then Nynaeve is the Creator
- 04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
626 Views
Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
- 04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
732 Views
The books disagree with this
- 04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
560 Views
Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
- 04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
682 Views
You are hilarious
- 04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
471 Views
Close the door on your way out...
- 04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
501 Views
no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
- 04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
296 Views
Re: agreed, sort of
- 04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
1366 Views
- 04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
1366 Views
this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
- 04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
743 Views
No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
- 01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
645 Views
Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
- 01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
334 Views
The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
- 01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
631 Views
nope
- 01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
642 Views
Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
- 01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
727 Views
I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
- 01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
778 Views
If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
- 01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
523 Views
Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
- 01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
531 Views
Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
- 31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
576 Views
Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
- 31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
407 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
610 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
631 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
502 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
514 Views
Remember gatways
- 31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
567 Views
I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
- 31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
558 Views
I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
- 01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
706 Views
I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
- 01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
678 Views
Strength is a touchy word in this case...
- 03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
649 Views
