Re: I don't think Aran'gar is all that bright honestly... and we got a hint from the books too
DomA Send a noteboard - 11/06/2010 03:33:05 PM
In short I'm saying Beonin points out that the murderer, a saidin channler, killed Anaiya and Kairen due to some connection between them.
Yes. Beonin was halfway there. So was Nisao, and Romanda, and most likely many others.
It was a matter of time before someone reasonned out the connection between Anayia and Kairen was personal, and tied them to Cabriana too, who died in circumstances the AS know only from Halima's story..
This doesn't expose Aran'gar as the killer - no one thought she could channel saidin - but it put Halima in the spotlight as a third woman linked to Cabriana, and Halima had already been noticed by many Aes Sedai for her behaviour with men from the camp.
The big risk, and somethign that could very credibly happen soon because of the proposal for an alliance, was that someone close to Rand came (or Rebels went to him, he may have been at the BT for all Aran'gar knew) and the news spread that a Forsaken woman channelling saidin was seen at SL. After that, it was only a matter of time before a Blue who knew Anayia and Kairen well made the connection to Cabriana. Romanda was just faster.
Just think how fast we would have make the connection to Halima if we had know Cabriana, Anayia and Kairen were close (actually, someone at Wotmania had noticed that connection between Anayia and Cabriana from NS, but most people rejected the theory and believed the victims were purely random and Aran'gar just meant to make the alliance with the BT derail and nothing else.) Of course, we knew Halima was Forsaken and used saidin, but even if we did not, we would have thought she could be involved somehow. A DF, tied to the man who killed Anayia and Kairen. We would just have theorized that man may have killed Cabriana too (if we didn't see the Semirhage scene either, I mean).
Then Kairen suddenly arrives in camp and probably asked Halima a bunch of questions about Cabriana
Why would she ask tons of questions - she would have gotten most of the story from Anayia and would just have been interested in talking a bit to Halima to get more details or something like this. They had no reason to be suspicious of Halima, Halima would have known too many details about Cabriana to appear to be a fraud, yet wasn't expected to know intimate details either, or have everything right.
Her cover story was really simple: she travelled with Cabriana a while, and gained her trust to an extent, and Cabriana sent her to Salidar. If the story was suspicious, Anayia and Sheriam's circle wouldn't have bought it either, they were cautious about the possibility of spies entering the camp. There was nothing for Kairen to dig very deep there, and there was the fact Halima was a Sitter's secretary, and AS don't meddle by custom in other sister's affairs. Kairen certainly didn't pressure Halima.
it seems likely that Aran'gar would have acted in her typical rash manner (she physically attacked SH remember)
Yes, she attacked Shaidar Haran in a moment of rage, but the murders of Anayia and Kairen weren't rash. Someone waited for an opportunity, and the two women were killed a week apart.
That's not being rash, that's cold planning, and beside if Kairen was suspicious of something about Cabriana and Halima, it was very stupid to go and kill another woman tied to Cabriana and leave Kairen a full week to make the connection! Just think of the risk in her grief Kairen told another person "I feel something is wrong about Cabriana and this woman Halima who claims to have befriended her, and now my other best friend is killed. This can't be a coincidence. I don't trust that Halima woman. What if she is a DF, what if she's the one who helped a male channeller to get Anayia killed?". This would have been overlooked as irrational, but only until Kairen got killed too.
And in this cold planning, not in the heat of the moment, Aran'gar would have left evidence of saidin residues and bodies not once, but twice, connecting the two murders. Aran'gar had a full week to realize that if she killed Kairen, a connection to Anayia might be made, and a connection to a male channeller had already been made. She also had a full week to realize, and hear from Delana, that the murder of Anayia by a channeller didn't sway the Hall one bit about seeking an alliance with Asha'man, an negotiations about envoys were still going on.
Now compare this to the discreet way Aran'gar got rid of the maids, hid the bodies and waited for a moment it would be credible for them to have run away from the camp. Aran'gar can plan coldly and rationally when she needs to.
Note also that as soon as Delana told Aran'gar about the meeting they packed up and ran? Aran'gar knew damn well she was going to be caught.
Precisely my point. Just the knowledge that an Asha'man tied to Rand was in the camp was enough to convince Aran'gar to go. (I was a bit wrong, Delana left the Hall the second Halima tried to eavesdrop and Narishma found out, she didn't stay to hear the BA Nacelle reveal her weave to detect saidin, and she didn't hear Narishma announce that a woman channelling saidin was seen either. Halima and Delana fled before all these things were known to them)
Doesn't it look to you like Aran'gar was perfectly aware that the link between Anayia and Kairen had a high risk of leading to her, and that all it took was for someone tied to Rand who knew about a woman channelling saidin to show up?
Halima would not have needed to flee. She just had to make sure Narishma didn't see her and recognized her before he left. She was forced to flee because two women who could be tied to her via Cabriana had been killed with saidin, and the risk was too high it lead to Halima. Without that, Halima had to be more cautious from now on - and very probably would prepare an escape plan, but no one had yet any reason to suspect Halima could be this woman channelling saidin. No reason... except someone had killed with saidin two women tied to Halima.
As I said originally, I think Aran'gar decided to flee because the visit of one of Rand's Asha'man was one too many coincidences that undermined her cover and somehow she was being set up for the fall by someone. Very recently she had learned that Mesaana was in the Tower, and forcibly had access to the Black Ajah. She couldn't trust that Mesaana didn't have agents with Rand, in the camp, and anywhere where AS were involved.
And I see the fact she decided to take Delana with her as a sign Aran'gar kept her options open to remain involved with the Tower. She could have just killed Delana if she wanted to prevent her from revealing anything (not that with the BA Oaths she could have said much about Aran'gar)
This message last edited by DomA on 11/06/2010 at 03:43:19 PM
Egwene's future
08/06/2010 10:10:28 AM
- 1169 Views
I've wondered if Egwene is "The Andoran Candidate"
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I rather think Aran'gar was a failure...
09/06/2010 10:56:42 AM
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Finally found a quote to redeem the Forsaken a bit
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Yeah, it's a bit strange...
09/06/2010 04:09:48 PM
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Re: Yeah, it's a bit strange...
09/06/2010 07:15:41 PM
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More thoughts in defense of this idea
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Re: More thoughts in defense of this idea
10/06/2010 01:26:54 PM
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Aran'gar certainly isn't Taim
10/06/2010 02:15:40 PM
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Implausible
10/06/2010 02:50:51 PM
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I mean...
10/06/2010 03:20:41 PM
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I still think yet another clue speaks loudly that Taim is a real Forsaken
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RJ explained Taim's look at the beginning of LoC
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Re: I still think yet another clue speaks loudly that Taim is a real Forsaken
10/06/2010 07:58:42 PM
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08/06/2010 08:31:07 PM
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On the other hand, we know that Egwene has to meet Seanchan yet. *NM*
09/06/2010 10:51:37 AM
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In book time, she'll probably be seeing Seta (and possibly Egeanin) in a couple hours
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They are in Caemlyn now...
09/06/2010 11:45:02 AM
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I didn't say it was important
09/06/2010 11:56:44 AM
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I mean...
09/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
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not going to happen
09/06/2010 09:10:16 PM
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Egwene's dreams are symbolic
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Some are more literal, while some are more symbolic
09/06/2010 10:51:09 AM
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Re: Some are more literal, while some are more symbolic
09/06/2010 06:54:14 PM
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As you said...
09/06/2010 08:33:13 PM
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Re: As you said...
10/06/2010 12:23:02 AM
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And they were Cabriana's best friends. Aran'gar killed them to cover her tracks
10/06/2010 01:48:13 PM
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Re: And they were Cabriana's best friends. Aran'gar killed them to cover her tracks
10/06/2010 11:02:36 PM
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I don't think Aran'gar is all that bright honestly... and we got a hint from the books too
11/06/2010 02:29:22 AM
- 226 Views
Re: I don't think Aran'gar is all that bright honestly... and we got a hint from the books too
11/06/2010 01:33:27 PM
- 251 Views
Re: I don't think Aran'gar is all that bright honestly... and we got a hint from the books too
11/06/2010 02:28:44 PM
- 233 Views
Re: I don't think Aran'gar is all that bright honestly... and we got a hint from the books too
11/06/2010 03:33:05 PM
- 413 Views
Found another relevant quote - Arangar wouldn't've needed Graendal's contacts in the AoL
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Re: As you said...
10/06/2010 08:32:12 PM
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Re: As you said...
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Re: As you said...
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So...
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Re: So...
11/06/2010 02:37:28 PM
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Nesta was impaled on a stake and her head put on a spike for rebellion
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