Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK?
malekithe Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 05:42:00 PM
To me it looks like Sorilea did it because Cadsuane actually showed her the weaves for the 'alarm system warding' that she put around both & she showed it to Sorilea because even tho she didnt want to show it to anyone she had to maintain that 'trust' level with her.
We all know that Sorilea learns weaves instantly, and even if she wasnt strong enough to undo them, she could easily find someone who can.
So the questions are..
1) Do you think it WAS Sorilea? If not then who else had the motivation to frame Cadsuane and take none of the spoils for themselves?
It might have been, but not necessarily. The truth is that no such "traitor" is actually necessary. Remember that Cadsuane was foolish enough to keep the bracelet and the access key in a box in her _room_. That would be the first place anyone would look ofcourse, so there was no need for Sorilea or anyone to tell the shadow.
As for the question of how the wards protecting the box were bypassed, Sanderson actually told us:
Q. How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?
A. Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.
Wait a sec... This is an actual real documented Q/A where BS admitted it was specifically Elza who removed the wards? Can you show me the link to read that discussion?
If Sorilea had revealed to the Shadow how to unravel the wards, then the "rarely known weaves" would not have been required. No, I think Elza was taught some obscure AoL techniques on breaking through wards, and she went to Cadsuanes room (the obvious place) and used those weaves to get the bracelet.
2) If you think it was her, is she working for the Shadow or defending the Aiel against Cadsuane's influence?
IF it was her, then she is obviously working for the shadow since if she was involved she must have informed Shaidar Haran.
3) How did she untie the weaves, and if she couldnt then who did she get to do it?
Elza broke the weaves thanks to whatever SH taught her.
4) If she is working for the Shadow why would she allow Rand to get his hands back on the Choeden Kal and not hold on to it herself or get it to a Chosen?
The question has been debated. It has been suggested that the DO wanted Rand to have the access key, so that when he went mad from using TP he would do mad things with it. Other possibility is that Elza was so panicked by meeting SH that she simply neglected to pick it up.
It still seems kinda funny that in one scene Sorilea asks to see the domination band and Cadsuane shows it to her by unraveling/breaking or otherwise removing the warding over it, just a few scenes later it's stolen. I didn't even see that Elza even knew the DB existed, let alone who had it, and it was invisible and it was inverted, and it could have been any kind of warding like exploding the room in fire or anything, yet one only one character is shown where it is and how to remove the ward and yet she is not responsible for it? It either seems like all fingers were meant to point to Sorilea as a red herring or she actually does work for the Shadow and at the minimum informed her masters about it, and she or they had Elza steal it.
Remember, we have seen NO important darkfriend Aiel EVER. All the Aes Sedai have DF's even 2 of the former Keepers where. It makes total sense so would the Aiel and a weak channeler to boot, it's innocuous looking.
Does she have a motive? Yes, Rand is supposed to nearly destroy the Aiel, someone of the Aiel must not be to happy with that.
Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK?
- 12/08/2010 09:49:32 AM
1933 Views
it's been discussed a lot
- 12/08/2010 11:00:06 AM
1371 Views
Really? All the questions it poses?
- 12/08/2010 11:06:11 AM
1167 Views
Havent seen this exact discussion before either.. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 11:06:45 AM
454 Views
see my further reply =oP I'm 13% less of a jerkface than it looks *NM*
- 12/08/2010 12:10:28 PM
465 Views
Re: Really? All the questions it poses?
- 12/08/2010 11:56:26 AM
1173 Views
not really
- 12/08/2010 02:08:41 PM
1091 Views
Yep, pretty much. Otherwise he could have just nullified the Compulsions' lingering effect on Elza
- 12/08/2010 02:11:24 PM
1016 Views
As demonstrated in TGS...
- 12/08/2010 05:27:21 PM
992 Views
We don't know that about Compulsion - we are talking about 2 different ways to deal with that weave
- 12/08/2010 07:16:30 PM
984 Views
Re: We don't know that about Compulsion - we are talking about 2 different ways to deal
- 12/08/2010 08:21:32 PM
1025 Views
Re: We don't know that about Compulsion - we are talking about 2 different ways to deal
- 12/08/2010 08:32:41 PM
1007 Views
Re: We don't know that about Compulsion - we are talking about 2 different ways to deal
- 13/08/2010 06:51:45 AM
888 Views
I replied to the topic before you edited to ask all the extra questions 
- 12/08/2010 12:08:27 PM
1006 Views
- 12/08/2010 12:08:27 PM
1006 Views
Both Bair and Sorilea knew
- 12/08/2010 10:33:59 PM
1014 Views
Fallacy of logic
- 12/08/2010 10:58:49 PM
968 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK?
- 12/08/2010 02:43:23 PM
1209 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK?
- 12/08/2010 05:42:00 PM
1518 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK?
- 12/08/2010 08:06:25 PM
1302 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK?
- 12/08/2010 08:20:44 PM
1004 Views
Re: Who betrayed Cadsuane by stealing the male adam and CK?
- 12/08/2010 08:32:21 PM
1102 Views
Who most wanted to get rid of Cadsuane BESIDES Rand?
- 12/08/2010 09:01:44 PM
1144 Views
Can't be Sorilea
- 13/08/2010 11:50:53 AM
927 Views
Re: Can't be Sorilea
- 13/08/2010 08:46:02 PM
889 Views
Re: Can't be Sorilea
- 14/08/2010 12:00:40 AM
952 Views
Re: Can't be Sorilea
- 14/08/2010 12:34:18 AM
982 Views
Not necessarily, Sorilea still could have watched Cadsuane untie the weaves
- 15/08/2010 01:53:27 AM
884 Views
Re: Not necessarily, Sorilea still could have watched Cadsuane untie the weaves
- 15/08/2010 12:53:42 PM
805 Views
I think that Couladin was a dark friend.
- 13/08/2010 03:00:20 AM
1385 Views
I'd be surprised, actually.
- 13/08/2010 05:34:13 AM
914 Views
Couladin and Asmodean
- 13/08/2010 08:33:38 AM
956 Views
Re: Couladin and Asmodean
- 13/08/2010 04:45:21 PM
1155 Views
Couldin isn't intolerant. He's murderously xenophobic.
- 14/08/2010 05:45:15 PM
906 Views
Almost ALL of the Aiel were murderously Xenophobic before Rand united them. *NM*
- 15/08/2010 01:00:37 PM
440 Views
Noone betrayed 'Cadsuane'-That was just a happy side affect (for the DO)
- 15/08/2010 08:22:59 AM
1035 Views
*Sigh* it is 2:20 AM so this is a double post. (You can ignore this one) *NM* *NM*
- 15/08/2010 08:23:49 AM
421 Views