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Re: I disagree LoialT Send a noteboard - 11/11/2010 03:38:50 PM
This is a future in which Rand survives a while and keeps enforcing his peace, meaning he still acts as a tyrant over the world, try to impose his will.. At his death, all hell breaks loose. Tuon or her successor set to complete the Return. The Aiel launch their war against the Seanchan, so does the alliance centered on Andor, TV etc. If you notice, down the line the Seanchan come to define their Empire as "The Light", meaning the consider the rest as the Shadow...


Hmm, this is not something I had considered. I assumed from the visions that Rand died at Shayol Ghul but everyone honored their promises to him out of loyalty or something. Your explanation probably makes more sense but I think he ruled more as a Hawkwing than a despot. His memory in the visions is a positive, almost reverent one. As many others have pointed out, however, it is odd that Rand, Elayne, and Aviendha are all dead just 20 years or so after the Last Battle. Avi's daughter remembers her so she must have lived past the Last Battle in this version of the future, and Elayne too in order to have her kids. So why would they both be dead? Shouldn't they be expected to live many centuries? Indeed, the total lack of apparent continuity in leadership between the 3rd and 4th age is striking and largely responsible for the foolish decisions made by the survivors in the visions.

Of course, Brandon may just not write wisdom well (he always resorts to a very outside-looking-in kind of Socratic dialogue to show one character intellectually besting another... which is not at all the same as wisdom). This is actually my least favorite aspect of his writing. When the characters start using "what if" logic games to self-consciously probe the limits of the WOT universe when they had never shown any inclinations to behave this way before... From Bryne's "these Warder powers are so AWESOME! I wonder what else they can do? Well, logically they should allow me to..." to Perrin's "they are just weaves... duh" it all feels so excited fanboy suddenly dropped into the WOT universe asking himself what he would do if he could spend a week there. It robs the characters of some of their realness by making them and their discoveries feel like RPG characters who have just leveled up. A bit off topic, but I had to rant a little.

I think Rand will teach the Aiel that their AOL services brought them much, much ji - he will tell them (and us, we still don't really know - we just know there's more to it than just singing to crops) why they were so valuable to the world and the Aes Sedai. The Aiel already know it' said they will return to their service to the Aes Sedai one day... I think Aviendha is completely wrong to believe the Aiel were in the Waste to learn to become warriors to atone for their Sin by fighting in TG... That's not why the Columns have made them remember their past. They were to be shaped as warriors so they survived until TG, and become strong enough to face the challenge of returning to the Way for the Last Battle...


This is something I know we agree about. Not sure that all or even most of the Aiel will follow this path, but this has got to be the "remnant of a remnant." What is not yet clear to me is how important "blood" is for the Aiel and their Leafer abilities. Did it need to be relatively pureblooded descendants of the Dai'shain Aiel? Was that why the Tua'tha'an were not enough? Or is it because the Tinkers only follow part of the Way? It seems more like the Aiel are some kind of chosen people, for which bloodlines do matter. The Aes Sedai wanted to save more than just the Way, they wanted to save it for the Aiel, and above all save the Aiel themselves.

I was really hoping to see the AOL past through Aviendha's eyes and her female ancestors. In fact I almost threw the book down when she just stepped out of the ter'angreal. Why wait so so so long to have Avi go back to Rhuidean and finally start to develop her character if all that was to be revealed was a possible future? I don't think it would have been much of a spoiler if that scene had happened like 5 books ago. Compared to all the other wondergirls, and even Min, Avi's character arc is way behind and stalled around tFoH. I still think she is destined for some kind of pan-Aiel leadership position like Egwene and Elayne are respectively for channelers and governments. But why wait to till the final hour for this part of the story? What's so important that it couldn't have begun back when Egwene and Elayne started their journeys to the top?


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After the Last Battle - 10/11/2010 02:00:13 PM 1882 Views
Didn't Avi's daughter imply that she knew her? - 10/11/2010 02:05:29 PM 947 Views
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Aviendha's children did not know their parents. - 10/11/2010 02:21:52 PM 1373 Views
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You, good sir, are - 10/11/2010 03:15:32 PM 924 Views
Read his review in Larry's review thread for what he thinks. - 10/11/2010 04:03:42 PM 997 Views
I disagree... - 10/11/2010 04:29:41 PM 1173 Views
Re: I disagree... - 11/11/2010 04:32:15 AM 1104 Views
Someone should ask Brandon to clear up Aviendha's timeline. *NM* - 11/11/2010 03:49:14 PM 431 Views
I find this very hard to believe - 11/11/2010 03:54:21 PM 850 Views
Re: I find this very hard to believe - 11/11/2010 04:50:26 PM 800 Views
Nope, doesn't make sense - 11/11/2010 05:03:50 PM 1058 Views
I disagree - 10/11/2010 05:47:19 PM 1325 Views
Re: I disagree - 11/11/2010 05:08:13 AM 1173 Views
Time - 11/11/2010 01:24:59 PM 814 Views
Re: I disagree - 11/11/2010 03:38:50 PM 1033 Views

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