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Re: Belgariad strategy DomA Send a noteboard - 16/11/2010 01:15:19 AM
Shayol Ghul is the key. Without Shayol Ghul and the bore resealed the darkside loses. Rand will strike at Shayol Ghul will force the darkside to respond. Demandred's trollocs in Cairhein, Camleyn, Tear would be of little use. Occupying Cairhein, Camleyn, and Tear would only be an advantage is if the Lightside waste time and reasources trying to reconquor them before dealing with Shayol Ghul.


it depends on perspectives...

You're seeing it from Moridin's POV, and indeed it's probably the DO's. It also appears to be Rand's.

However.... Rand's "followers" won't exactly see it that way. These are their nations, their cities, their people. Will Elayne easily accept to "write off" Andor? Striking massively south, where it hurts, is not a bad strategy to undermine the alliance of the Light. It is only natural for the rulers and their armies to wish to save their own. It would also turn them into desperate beggars, all vying to convince Rand and Egwene they can spare some channellers to save their city and loved ones. Rand isn't the only one who would have know despair and pain of heart if he lost his loved ones....

As for that... just think of how the Asha'man will react to the fact so many of their loved ones are trapped and slavesof the Shadow at the BT.... those bonded will have to experience every miserable second of it... mistreatments, terror, rapes and worse etc. Will these Asha'man accept that "only SG counts" ? How many wouldl make Aemon's choice, run back home and get ambushed and slaughtered there?

I think this is how Moridin would see the purpose of a giant campaign in the South: undermining and isolating Rand, and scattering the forces of the Light, making them much easier to destroy. We've got a taste of that in Saldaea - an Asha'man task force and a great general with good troops just weren't enough, and Rand is already preparing his followers to the fact this won't be his battle, that he has other responsabilities than fight for them. He came to Saldaea because he owed it to Ituralde. He won't be able to do that for everyone.

And then there's Demandred's perspective. He wants to shine massively in the Last Battle. He wants to prove himself better than LTT.

This theory is but a new variation on an old one of mine. Previously, I thought Demandred's revenge over LTT would involve trying to undo his achievements. I thought Demandred was always a few steps behind Rand, and had placed pawns in each and every new group Rand gathered to him, pawns that would betray Rand during TG.

Now, I think Demandred indeed placed spies, but betrayals wouldn't nearly be enough for him. Rather, as Rand progressed in his conquests, Demandred has extended his plans. His goal will be to conquer as much of "Rand's Empire" as he can manage. Caemlyn, Illian, Cairhien, Tear, Rhuidean, the BT, where he'll make his HQ and where he'll have everyone who is following Rand turned, or else killed will merely be the jewel in the crown of his personal revenge.... I think he is also the type to wish to put all the other Chosen generals to shame, by singlehandly bringing back all their powerbases to the Shadow. He always thought them stupid for conquering so early and so openly. Himself has remained hidden, and didn't let the Light even a hint of what he's planning.

I think part of Rand's reasons for indirectly inciting Egwene to gather the world's armies north of Tar Valon may well have to do with the fact LTT is all too aware that Demandred has not shown his hand yet, and he has anticipated what Demandred might be planning. I think LTT has a fairly good idea, and no delusion, about the chances of the Light's forces against Demanded and AOL tactics. Rand's never given the explicit order to gather everyone, he just anticipated that's what Egwene would do (and could easily verify she had fallen for his ploy). To Demandred, this would look like Rand has no idea what's coming to him, and that Egwene is foolishly emptying the nations of their armies, which will make the conquests all too easy to the Shadow. In truth, Rand will have assembled in one place such a powerful army (WO, AS, Asha'man, Windfinders.. .they'll all be there, with the great generals, three ta'veren and so many armies.... Rand has even avoided the trap of sending the Bordermen immediately back North... which is what the Shadow wanted.... most of their forces north were dealt with, and now they'd come to be slaughtered too...) Demandred won't come anywhere near it.

After the meeting and Demandred's initial conquests, the roles will be kind of reversed - the Shadow will have stretched itself out, perhaps even more than initially planned because Rand has created all those opportunities for Demanded to take everything at once... That might be what LTT is hoping for, that Demandred won't be able to resist the chance to humiliate him and tries to capture and hold too much at once.

Rand's forces willbe in one place, make plans, and coordinate. Rand says he doesn't intend to lead the war, so this is the opportunity for the generals to rise up and plan together (under Mat, obviously). They will all be in one place, and likely move their headquarters to Tar Valon, as Mesaana has failed to destroy the WT. The Seanchan are about to move everything they have to the north as well, meaning the Shadow can move to destroy all their supply bases, all their bureaucrats etc, leaving them stranded and desperate. They would understand if they fail at Tar Valon, the Empire is lost. Demandred might hope they'll clash with Tar Valon with all the strength of their anger and despair, and the fractured two sides of the Light will destroy one another enough for the Shadow to wipe out the remnants. A lot of us suspect the big plot twist where the Seanchan will ally themselves to the others is about to come... The Aelfinn told Rand the south and west must be "as one". The South and West are the Seanchan lands. They told him the north and east must be "as one". This is achieved by bringing Egwene's, Rand's and Elayne's forces together. All that remains is that "the two must be as one", ie: the Seanchan, and Rand's forces. I more than a little suspect Rand has puzzled this out after his epiphany, and it's one of his motives for delaying the gathering by a month. He has work to do....

It's "horrible" if Rand has decided to let the main cities send all their forces north of Tar Valon if he suspects the Shadow will conquer these locations, but I think this is exactly the sort of situation where he must be hard. Had he let his forces scattered, defending their own little sandboxes, they would have fallen one by one, leaving him nearly nothing and leaving the population no less dead. The Dragon needs the Light to hold a while, or all is lost. He doesn't yet know how to seal the Bore. It's part of the reasons why he want to act so fast. He knows this Second War of Shadow just can't last 10 years, he knows he won't have a few years to present a plan, argue over it, try a plan B, let it fail and then come back with his plan. The world is too weak for that. It can resist a few months at best, if the Light gathers all its fighting forces, and don't let them be scattered all over the continent, trying to hold cities that will fall sooner or later, or to retake them too soon once the Shadow has them. LTT's opinion might be that letting the cities fall under the Shadow and be ruled by the Chosen might be a lesser evil, that the Chosen will prefer slaves over corpses, like they did in the AOL. People will no doubt suffer massively, but may get a better chance at survival if Rand let the Shadow conquer without too much opposition. As far as LTT can tell, the two Forsaken who commits the greatest atrocities against humans (Graendal, Semirhage) are gone for good. Demandred fed a whole city to Trollocs to avenge a personal slight, but on the whole he seems to prefer ordered territories over free-for-all slaughter, probably the sort who prefer to enslave people and force them to work to supply his armies rather than to slaughter indiscriminatly. Lanfear preferred to terrorize and enslave than kill, it's implied. Mesaana is a bureaucrat, an administrator who spent a lot of her efforts "re educating" people in conquered lands, not killing them.

But well... one of Min's viewings suggested 1 out of 4 person in Tear is doomed. It seems the TG deathtoll will be very high, if 25% of the citizens of Tear, all the way South, will die. Losing one person out of four, and none of them among the soldiers, is still better than losing almost all of Tear in a hopeless battle to prevent the city from falling to the Shadow. Of course, if Rand's forces refuse too much to engage and fight for the cities, there'd the real risk Demandred's answer is to feed the populations to the Trollocs to force Rand's hand. My feeling is that Demandred's greatest frustration in TG might be Rand's claim that he won't lead the battle. He won"t like it one bit if it turns out Mat is the top general and Rand stays out of it... much like Demandred himself has done in the series. To add to his frustration might be the fact Demandred had no choice but to accept that Moridin holds the North, waiting for Rand to come for him. My feeling is that Demandred hopes Rand won't survive long enough to ever face Moridin in the North, that he will fall to him in the South/heartland. There's no telling what Demandred might do if he realizes Rand won't enter the fight and reserves himself for the "final battle" at SG. I think Demandred will feel immensely angry and insulted if Rand let "his lackeys" face him - especially if most of his generals are non-channellers! He might come to hate Matrim Cauthon nearly as much as he hates LTT, before it's all over.

I wonder how many of the Light's generals Demandred will defeat during the LB. My guess is Bashere, almost for sure. Bryne, Ituralde, Galgan, Agelmar, Estean and Talmanes, Guybon are other potential candidates. It's probably a very good thing Birgitte is out of Caemlyn, with Elayne.


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