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You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM
"Suspension of disbelief" is the ability to ignore the obviously false elements in any work of fiction in order to become invested emotionally in the work of fiction.

Hell, even wikipedia realizes that it is needed for "any storytelling".

Suspension of disbelief is required for ANY work of fiction. ANY WORK OF FICTION. LET ME REPEAT: ANY WORK OF FICTION.


From Wikipedia: "Suspension of disbelief or "willing suspension of disbelief" is a formula for justifying the use of fantastic or non-realistic elements in literature. It was put forth in English by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative.
The phrase "suspension of disbelief" came to be used more loosely in the later 20th century, often used to imply that the onus was on the reader, rather than the writer, to achieve it. It might be used to refer to the willingness of the audience to overlook the limitations of a medium, so that these do not interfere with the acceptance of those premises. These fictional premises may also lend to the engagement of the mind and perhaps proposition of thoughts, ideas, art and theories."

Notice that the definition and the passage don't say it is needed for any storytelling - that is your understanding of it, not what the term actually means. Note there is a further explanation further down the page during a discussion about Superman that illustrates how some readers might need to suspend their disbelief for one element of a fictional story, while other readers would not have any problems with other fantastical elements - some readers accept that a superbeing would exist very easily, but need to suspend their disbelief that his identity as Clark Kent is sufficient to blend in with his co-workers.

Do you need to suspend your disbelief to read a fairy tale? You know it is not true; you are not expected to believe it is true.

That is the crucial element you are missing.

In order to need to "suspend your disbelief", you must actually be asked to believe in something you otherwise might not.

I very highly doubt that RJ intended for "The Wheel of Time" to be taken seriously and for it to contain elements you were supposed to believe in.

I would say your main issue with our arguments is that you don't understand that, just as the Wikipedia article indicated in the Superman example, not all readers need to suspend their disbelief to enjoy a fantasy story because they understand it to be fictional, while you may need to do so. I don't take this story seriously (anymore), so I can read a passage with characters whose motivations are nonsensical and not be bothered, whereas it seems that you demand them to follow a pattern of reasoning that is logical or at least understandable. My "belief" isn't really an issue here, because what this series triggers is my imagination, not my critical thinking (it's the theorizing that triggers that).
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 02/12/2010 at 04:30:36 PM
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Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM 3060 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM 1685 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM 1620 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM 1587 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM 1626 Views
Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything - 29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM 1592 Views
I vote it has come to pass - 29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM 1444 Views
*facepalm* - good point, not sure how I missed that. *NM* - 29/11/2010 03:12:00 AM 844 Views
Re: I vote it has come to pass - 29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM 1446 Views
Prophecy never said she would be angry at the time, - 29/11/2010 11:36:53 AM 1509 Views
lol true, gg *NM* - 29/11/2010 11:52:54 AM 829 Views
Aviendha's vision doesn't automatically mean the Light will win - 28/11/2010 05:32:56 PM 1859 Views
She doesn't even see that. The arches just show a possibility. - 29/11/2010 07:12:05 PM 1402 Views
Indeed - 28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM 1487 Views
am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks - 28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM 1723 Views
i think most people feel that way - 29/11/2010 09:06:44 AM 1536 Views
I agree with you - 05/12/2010 05:13:38 PM 1320 Views
Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks - 29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM 1455 Views
I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_- - 29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM 1435 Views
Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM 1783 Views
I agree that he was part of Graendal's plan, but - 29/11/2010 02:16:45 AM 1426 Views
Re: I agree that he was part of Graendal's plan, but - 29/11/2010 09:44:05 AM 1374 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM 1754 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM 1449 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM 1540 Views
He disbelieves in the Heroes - 29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM 1404 Views
I think that's his mind deceiving itself - 29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM 1484 Views
I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed - 30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM 1383 Views
Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves? - 30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM 1475 Views
Re: Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves? - 30/11/2010 12:05:44 PM 1344 Views
he makes no mention of the Heroes. - 30/11/2010 10:42:13 PM 1454 Views
They did get another thing right - 29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM 1446 Views
Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him. - 29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM 1416 Views
It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome - 29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM 1552 Views
I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though. - 29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM 1428 Views
The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable - 29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM 1569 Views
You, good sir, are - 30/11/2010 06:53:49 PM 1370 Views
I also think Lan will be saved right before the end. - 29/11/2010 06:50:34 PM 1358 Views
Re: I also think Lan will be saved right before the end. - 30/11/2010 01:47:27 AM 1495 Views
It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace" - 29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM 1532 Views
+1 *NM* - 29/11/2010 07:18:13 PM 762 Views
it is. I love it anyways, though - 29/11/2010 07:23:24 PM 1336 Views
War and Peace was very thematic - 30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM 1789 Views
Doublethink for the win! *NM* - 30/11/2010 07:35:20 AM 797 Views
Re: War and Peace was very thematic - 30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM 1430 Views
I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT - 30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM 1411 Views
Please tell me what drugs you're on - 01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM 1519 Views
It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm - 01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM 1416 Views
You are absolutely wrong. - 02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM 1397 Views
You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it. - 02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM 1527 Views
No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit. - 02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM 1318 Views
No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY. - 02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM 1242 Views
It's really very simple. - 04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM 1568 Views
mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange - 05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM 1429 Views
I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone. - 06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM 1542 Views
No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend. - 01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM 1323 Views
You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them. - 02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM 1389 Views
I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that - 02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM 1219 Views
I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF - 02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM 1412 Views
That's a load of crap... - 02/12/2010 06:03:13 AM 1572 Views
Sure - 01/12/2010 01:30:03 AM 1362 Views
Black Tower - 30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM 1339 Views
Re: Black Tower - 30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM 1490 Views
I agree with everything. - 30/11/2010 01:37:11 PM 1666 Views
Hopper's death... oh god... - 01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM 1615 Views
while i miss hopper - 02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM 1369 Views
Re: while i miss hopper - 02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM 1499 Views
Hopper wasn't that important, either, though. - 03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM 1275 Views
Re: Hopper wasn't that important, either, though. - 03/12/2010 03:10:54 PM 1328 Views
It would be awesome if it were, though. - 03/12/2010 04:41:42 PM 1452 Views
Re: It would be awesome if it were, though. - 04/12/2010 09:54:09 PM 1420 Views
- 05/12/2010 07:07:44 AM 1295 Views

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