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Re: It tells us Elayne doesn't rule very long, and neither does her daughter... BUT MissKoalaVB Send a noteboard - 29/01/2011 11:32:10 PM
I somehow wondered if Nakomi was actually Verin. I say this, b/c Verin or her letters seem to pop up everywhere.


So when Aviendha travels through the ter'angreal the second time in Rhuidean I was confused at first. However, I've re-read the section and it is obvious that Aviendha's children pull a fast one over on the next queen of Andor (Elayne's child). Now this tells us something. First, Elayne is not a long-reigning queen (thank goodness). But that begs the question...what happened to Elayne. The only answer I can come up with is Elayne dies within the first 20-30 years after her children are born (thank goodness...I hate her).

Anyway, did I misinterpret this section or is it clear that Elayne is dead? Perhaps Elayne dies in the next book or perhaps she dies in the next few years, but it seemed obvious to me that Elayne won't live very long after Rand makes the pact that the Aiel are left out of.


The big question is whether this future is set in stone or if it can be changed completely by decisions Aviendha will bring the Aiel to make.

The whole debate Aviendha is facing is what should the Aiel become after the LB.

The future she's foreseen is one that has not been altered from the time Aviendha left Rand, that is Rand still plans (and in this future succeeds) to enforce a truce between the Seanchan and the Westlands, and it solves nothing as soon after he's no longer around, the forces resume their war. In short, nothing got solved, the Seanchan merely postponed their war of conquest, their hatred for the WT and Asha'man is still very much alive, and the Aiel still intend to go to war against the Seanchan (a war of retribution, not too unlike the war they didn't call a war against Laman), and return to the Waste post TG.

There is no hint of the later (later than Aviendha's visit to Rhuidean) developments, like the fact the Seanchan have attacked the Tower, that Egwene has sowed the first seeds of an alliance of a sort between all female channelers, all the changes in Rand's character since his epiphany, nor even of Elayne's forming new "Empire". Rand as he is now is most, most unlikely to "enforce" any truce between the Seanchan and Tower or Westlands. LTT would understand perfectly well this would only lead to a devasting world war once he's no longer around. The new Rand would never try to impose a factice and dangerous peace like this on the world. Another thing that doesn't work with this future is that we know Jordan planned a sequel, set 5-10 years after TG, in which Tuon and Mat crossed the sea to go reconquer and pacify the Seanchan Empire - in other words, unlike Aviendha's future, it appears the Seachan leave the Westlands 5-10 years after TG.

The odds are Aviendha's foreseen future was part of the original purpose of the Glass Columns, as set up by the Aes Sedai of Rhuidean. This is not THE future, but a warning tailed for Aviendha, a future extrapolated from things as they stand now.

For millenia, the Aiel were shown their past so they did not forget what they once were (ask yourself why this is important...), and only their leaders knew this so their path and identity as the warriors they had to become to survive the Third Age was unhindered by pacifist factions trying to bring back the lost past, or to seek the Tinkers too soon etc. The Aiel leaders know this was their past, and that it could not be their present. They also know the "Lost Ones" still hold to the old beliefs, and could teach them again. I think the future shown to Aviendha is the final purpose of the Glass Columns, showing her where the future may lead if the Aiel remain warriors after TG and don't return to the Way of the Leaf and living among the rest of the people (and Aviendha's path is one where she's learned to abandon the Warrior ways and return to peaceful means... that and learn with Elayne the truth about her prejudices on other cultures..).

It's the finality of what the Rhuidean Aes Sedai had foreseen: the Aiel have an important purpose (which they still don't understand), and they could not fulfill it if they kept to the Way of the Leaf in the Third Age. The AS thought at first the Aiel had to keep to the Way no matter what, but they saw their mistake when the Jenn could not survive the Waste. For a long time, the Tinkers had to wander unable to find what they used to be or who they really were, and the Aiel had to adopt a rough warrior culture to survive. The AS set the ter'angreal up so the strongest and wisest of the Aiel would still be unable to forget when they came from. It's very obvious the Rhuidean Aes Sedai believed that when the Aiel would be needed, when the time of their purpose would come, they would need to return to the Way of the Leaf to fulfill it. The future Aviendha has seen is a warning, a trigger for a radical change to the Aiel culture that Aviendha, once she's thought it through, will bring about with Rand, perhaps at Rand's instigation (Aviendha's story might make him realize how he could use the Leafers and their "powers" in TG, in a way he had not done in the WOS). It all had to happen once Rand gained all of LTT's memories and the LB began. The Aiel would not have survived as Leafers before the Light was united as Rand didn't have the power to protect them, and Rand had to become in truth the Creator's champion. His passage through the Tinkers in Ebou Dar was no coincidence, just another tip from the Wheel...

Where does this leaves us? It sounds like the very dark future Aviendha saw most likely will be averted. Some events, like the birth of her quadruplets from Rand are set in stone, but most others seem to be extrapolated from facts "recorded" either by the Glass Columns, or by the Arches through which the WO see tons of variations on their future, some things that can only be accepted, and others that are just choices they'll face. The future seems one based on Aviendha's own soul thread and "possible futures", and possibly on Rand's.

The WO are trained to accept what can't be changed, and about the importance of making decisions as leaders. They gain a kind of second sense from the Arches, a feeling of déjà vu when they have to make important choices, in a way not unlike Mat's dices...

I think Aviendha triggered the "second vision" not by any Talent of hers, but because she's the woman the ter'angreal was programmed to show these visions to. It was always to be shown to the woman who would be the mother of the Children of the Dragon, IMO. The ter'angreal drew from her thread in the Pattern as she went though it, and then played back a kind of virtual reality version of the future as it could happen, if the Aiel don't return to the Way.

It's left to Aviendha and Rand to puzzle it out.

It seems very unlikely to me many of the events depicted in the vision will come true. All it revealed for certain, IMO, is how Aviendha's four babies are "odd" (and it's now clear why Jordan put that Viewing in... the vision is the final answer we'll get. Those babies will very doubtfully be born before the end of the series). The more remote the events shown are from Aviendha (and maybe Rand), the more extrapolated they must be. I doubt it tells us much about Elayne's real future, or Tuon's, or the WT's etc. I think it's a "futurustic" vision not dissimilar in nature to the Aes Sedai test for Acceptance. It's based on the person going in, and some elements are real, but few and far between.

The most interesting tidbit remains Nakomi, whose conversation was preparing Aviendha to ask herself the important questions about the future of the Aiel, the old ways etc. What would happen to the Aiel once it's all over is not something Aviendha had mused much on before Nakomi brought it up. It does sound a lot like Nakomi was more or less literally a Deus ex Machina, an intervention of some kind from the Wheel, a twisting of reality.
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Avi's 2nd trip indirectly tells us something about Elayne - 08/01/2011 10:31:15 PM 2146 Views
Aviendha and Tuon are also dead or gone by that point. *NM* - 09/01/2011 04:07:44 AM 521 Views
That does not surprise me - 10/01/2011 12:06:23 AM 961 Views
40/50 is still young for Tuon to die, unless she's assassinated - 10/01/2011 12:26:19 AM 883 Views
they've been collared *NM* - 10/01/2011 01:55:18 PM 382 Views
I just figured that Elayne, Egwene and Nynaeve died fighting the Seanchan - 10/01/2011 05:28:14 PM 989 Views
that doesn't fit the timeline though - 11/01/2011 04:58:11 PM 809 Views
Strange. - 11/01/2011 07:16:28 PM 782 Views
clearly? - 10/01/2011 07:24:17 PM 846 Views
Re: clearly? - 10/01/2011 08:08:54 PM 771 Views
Re: clearly? - 10/01/2011 08:18:46 PM 700 Views
It tells us Elayne doesn't rule very long, and neither does her daughter... BUT - 10/01/2011 09:15:29 PM 1044 Views
I wonder if Nakomi was Lanfear & if so, perhaps changed the programming of the ter'angreal - 10/01/2011 10:30:50 PM 858 Views
Yeah, Lanfear put Confundus Charm on the columns... *NM* - 11/01/2011 03:00:46 PM 369 Views
Lanfear or a Forsaken as Nakomi don't make much sense to me - 12/01/2011 06:03:32 PM 1208 Views
Re: Lanfear or a Forsaken as Nakomi don't make much sense to me - 23/01/2011 07:43:42 AM 847 Views
Re: Lanfear or a Forsaken as Nakomi don't make much sense to me - 26/01/2011 12:09:30 AM 631 Views
As to the Nakomi problem... - 26/01/2011 05:22:50 AM 920 Views
Aviendha time traveling back to herself. Very interesting...and possible...I'll have to think on it *NM* - 30/01/2011 10:02:44 PM 430 Views
I've heard this one before but... - 01/02/2011 09:09:39 PM 773 Views
I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2011 01:48:09 PM 359 Views
Re: It tells us Elayne doesn't rule very long, and neither does her daughter... BUT - 29/01/2011 11:32:10 PM 640 Views
There is no reason to believe Nakomi is Verin. *NM* - 30/01/2011 10:01:33 PM 428 Views

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