Active Users:191 Time:01/05/2024 02:26:59 PM
You make me wonder ... Nate Send a noteboard - 03/11/2011 09:37:45 PM
... how plausible it would be to break Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight apart and rebuild them with a different chapter order. A recommended reading order, so to speak.

I suspect it would end up with some stretches where there were multiple chapters in a row with the same character, which might be why they chose to split them up as they did, as opposed to writing filler chapters to pad things out and get the timelines lined up. I don't think I would mind multiple chapters with the same character though.

The part where I think someone trying to reorganize the chapters would have trouble is in regards to Perrin's climactic scene in relation to Egwene's in relation to Rand's.

Mat is no problem, we can fit his climactic scene in where it belongs and where it is anyway, at the end of ToM. If you keep Perrin's at the end of ToM as well, now you run into a problem. Perrin interacted with Egwene in the wolf dream, as Egwene fought Mesaana and the Black Ajah. That's fine, but now you can't place Rand's epiphany at the end of ToM. Because in Egwene's timeline, Rand's epiphany took place long before the fight with Mesaana. Rand came down off the mountain and visited her.

In order to get all four climactic scenes together at the end of ToM (which I agree would be better), you'd have to somehow restructure or eliminate the whole bit with Zen Rand meeting Amyrlin Egwene.

That in turn leads to another problem. By the end of ToM, the armies are gathering and Egwene and Elayne have brought their people to begin the Last Battle, and that goes along with the Trolloc attack on Caemlyn that is connected to the end of Mat's story. But that gathering with Egwene and Elayne couldn't happen unless Rand had talked with Egwene first. And Rand would never have gone near the White Tower before his epiphany. It seems difficult to have Rand's epiphany take place at the same time that Mat rescues Moiraine and Perrin fights in the wolf dream and Egwene beats Mesaana. Because even if you do all of those four things at the same time and then go on to have Rand talk with Egwene and Egwene gather people together, you now have the problem of Mat. He's just rescued Moiraine. What his he going to do for all that time while things are setting up for Egwene and Elayne, and while Zen Rand is going to meet the Borderlanders and helping fight the trollocs in the north? Is he going to hang out in Caemlyn with Moiraine for awhile, waiting another few weeks before he opens Verin's letter? It makes more sense to me for Mat to rescue Moiraine and then have the trollocs attack Caemlyn right afterward, at the same time that Egwene and Elayne are gathering their forces, but that means that Rand has to have his epiphany sometime before Mat rescues Moiraine.

It's all a bit of a mess no matter how you slice it. It seems to me that the problem is not necessarily the timeline, but the three-book structure. The three-book structure demands climaxes. We know that Jordan planned to do it all in one more book, but if we're honest we also know that's impossible. You could do it in one book, but it would be something like 2000 or more pages even if you try to keep it brief, and as fun as that sounds you can't actually do that. But structurally, timelinewise, it would work better.

No longer concerned with climaxes, you could do everything in the right order so long as you didn't mind having consecutive chapters with the same character. Everything that happens with Perrin before Tam leaves would occur in its proper place, in the first bit of the book, along with Rand being crotchety, Semhirage escaping, Egwene doing her thing, and Mat getting along to meet Verin. You could then have Rand's epiphany take place along with Egwene becoming Amyrlin. As Rand goes around and makes things better, Mat strikes out to rescue Moiraine, Egwene tries to fix the Tower, and Perrin fights Slayer. Perrin and Mat have their big moments while Egwene beats Mesaana. Not everyone has their big climactic moments all at the same time, but it doesn't matter because it's all one book. Then we go on to the stuff in Caemlyn and the Last Battle and whatever else happens in the last book.

But you can't fit all that in one book, so they split it. Unfortunately, when you split it, the natural climactic points are Rand/Egwene and Perrin/Mat/Egwene, which is what we got. But there's a problem. Most of that content takes place pre-Rand/Egwene, with a lesser amount taking place between that and Perrin/Mat/Egwene. So you'd have one big book, the one small book, then the last book. From a publishing standpoint, that wouldn't do. So they shoe-horned Perrin's stuff into the second book, putting a bunch of it out of chronology, and upsetting a lot of fans.

But it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't really see a way to make it all work perfectly in a three-book format. Something has to give somewhere.

I think I've seen it argued that Rand's epiphany should have taken place at the end of the second book, and that would make it work. But that leads to the problems I mentioned earlier. Rand needs to talk to Egwene after his epiphany, in order to set up Egwene and Elayne gathering their forces, so that Caemlyn can be attacked by trollocs. And if that all happens post-ToM (ie in the last book), then that pushes a bunch of content into the last book and makes ToM shorter, plus leaves a big gap in Mat's timeline post-Moiraine-rescue. Also, from a publishing standpoint, that would leave Egwene's ascension to Amyrlin as the only climax in the first book.

I think they had to go to a multi-book format, but as soon as they did they were in no-win territory as far as making everything fit together.

However, there is a way I could see it working, but it would require a change to the way Jordan likely scripted the rest of the series. What I would do is have Mat rescuing Moiraine take place in the first book, and be the second climax to pair with Egwene's. Perrin's stuff with Tam would take place in this book as well. It would be a big book, but we could cut out some of Rand and his angst, moving it to the second book.

In the second book I would have Rand falling apart and then Mat trying to find Rand, delivering Moiraine to him around the same time that Tam comes back. Rand would then lose it on both of them at once, and flee. Rand would have his epiphany and come off the mountain. Mat would be kicking it back in Caemlyn and congratulating himself on doing a good job and not opening Verin's letter (which would have come with no 30-day stay-in-Caemlyn provision so that he could go rescue Moiraine sooner), getting the Band ready for the Last Battle. Egwene would fight Mesaana and Perrin would take down Slayer and win over the Whitecloaks while Rand was visiting the Borderlanders and commiting genocide on the trollocs in the north. Then Egwene and Elayne would gather, Mat would open the letter, and the trollocs would attack.

To do this in two proper-sized books you would have to cut out some of the scenes in Gathering Storm. Perhaps you would cut out Mat in the village of the damned, and maybe one or two of Egwene's quiet rebellion chapters. But it would be made easier by the fact that you wouldn't need all of Perrin's pre-Tam-leaving chapters in the first book. Some of them could be in the second still, because Rand's epiphany would happen midway through the second book.

However, I can't think of a good way to have a three-book format where Rand's epiphany takes place at the end of the second book. Too much happens after that, and the trollocs attacking Caemlyn hinges on Rand's epiphany taking place well in advance.

That is all a complicated way of saying that while I agree what was done wasn't great, I think there are problems with every other possible solution as well.
Warder to starry_nite

Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
http://chapterfish.wordpress.com
Reply to message
Ranking the books. - 03/11/2011 07:30:39 PM 5899 Views
My ranking: - 03/11/2011 07:44:49 PM 2228 Views
For all it's worth - 03/11/2011 08:12:06 PM 1563 Views
TSR wins it for the Rhuidean Aiel history scene alone - 04/11/2011 04:49:29 AM 1294 Views
Re: TSR wins it for the Rhuidean Aiel history scene alone - 04/11/2011 05:23:05 PM 1209 Views
I had no idea it was Jordan's favorite. - 04/11/2011 05:33:51 PM 1235 Views
Mine - 03/11/2011 08:35:46 PM 1280 Views
You make me wonder ... - 03/11/2011 09:37:45 PM 960 Views
Re: You make me wonder ... - 03/11/2011 11:38:58 PM 753 Views
Aight - 05/11/2011 11:16:32 AM 779 Views
1. Crossroads of Twilight. Yeah. I'm going there, bitches. - 05/11/2011 06:00:25 PM 1137 Views
My list - 06/11/2011 08:23:29 AM 884 Views
Sure, why not? - 06/11/2011 04:13:33 PM 833 Views

Reply to Message