Active Users:234 Time:18/05/2024 06:08:36 AM
Re: Hmmm... DomA Send a noteboard - 08/02/2012 12:08:49 AM
I agree with a lot of what you said, and found this to be an interesting read...

But it isn't like there aren't indicators for Egwene being LPD.

For one thing, I think you slightly miscast Latra's role in the Second Age.


No, I just focussed on some aspects as the rest wasn't pertinent to what I was discussing.

You missed the whole point I was trying to make about this, and have fallen in the trap: Rand as the rebirth of LTT has been brought into the Pattern to deal again with the ongoing DO situation, which is largely the result of the fact that's his main mission for the Wheel as a Hero of the Horn. Rand is one of a kind, not the norm by which everybody's else's rebirths work, and Birgitte even though she's a Hero, is evidence that Rand is rather exceptional in that. It doesn't follow that everybody else was recast in the same roles just because Rand's soul was, and that everyone is facing the same issues over and over again. The Wheel is not there with a whip threatening "You do it right this time around, or you'll be reborn in the same roles until you get it right you bastards!" That's Ishamael's vision of things, of souls devoid of freedom and forever captives.

The Amyrlin Seat is placed in a position similar to LPD's when dealing with Rand, not Egwene herself, the job that she is filling. Siuan and Elaida were exactly in the same position before Egwene. Whoever is on the Seat is de facto playing something like LPD's role, in the sense of facing similar issues/decisions, not of thinking the same way, or having anything like the same personality. Some issues are similar and many parallel to the situation Latra stood in can forcibly be drawn between her and whoever is in the Amyrlin Seat now - it's normal it's still the DO they're dealing with, and some issues are wholly different, for one thing Rand isn't even really the leader of either the male or the female Aes Sedai. By your logic, that makes Egwene as likely to be the Dragon soul as Latra's... and we know the truth about that...

He will have a plan for sure, they have to make the decisions to support him or not. This will be similar to what every AS in the AOL faced, and Egwene leads them so she will be central to it. That's it, that's all. The parallel that she brought the women together is flawed. She is rebuilding the AS organization, not playing a role similar to Latra's in anything doing that. Latra stood up one day and decided to oppose the decisions/plans proposed to the AS by LTT, who lead them. She didn't unite the women, she merely managed to convince all who were strong enough to join the circles LTT wanted to refuse and stand together in that decision, then she lead the AS faction, not necessarily just women nor the same women sworn not to participate in LTT's plans, that was devising a plan B (that we know LTT was scared massively of. The very idea of the CK made LTT shiver in fear.).

Aside for Tuon for the Seanchan, the Amyrlin is the one with enough political clout and enough left of a reputation for neutrality over the nations to stand up to Rand (which doesn't mean they'd win). LPD was in a position similar to Romanda's toward Egwene too. She had enough power to try to block her path if she thought Egwene was erring. And quite a few times, Romanda did. She was also the one in a position to replace Egwene if she failed. That doesn't make Egwene likely to be LPD reborn, the similarities are there because Egwene is the representative/boss of the female Aes Sedai! Jordan left no clue either way that Egwene (or Elayne, Perrin and so on) could be the rebirths of AOLer we know about. There would be strictly no point to that, unless very exceptional accidents happen, no one ever has any memory of their past lives, many of their physical skills are different, their basic personality is far from identical to their last, and it's further altered by their environment and new life experiences.

So I'm not saying Egwene has zero chance of being Latra's soul. It's just terribly unlikely because we know incarnations are different from Birgitte's life and it's Rand who is exceptional(and mind you, his life has been so far vastly different from LTT. Aside from having to fight the DO at the end... not even his path to be the leader of the Light is even remotely similar. Wholly different issues Rand had to face this time around.

It's also very obvious that Jordan, who knew the answer to these questions, had no interest in that topic and has kept it out of the series.


And we know the Pattern has other relationships where two Heroes are sometimes set in opposition and sometimes not. That's exactly what Artur Hawkwing told Rand about the relationship between their souls.


Jordan said that the dynamic of having two strong ta'veren in opposition might serve the Pattern too in some cases, in rebirths were the Dragon is not needed as Humanity's saviour against the Shadow but for some other roles altogether, and that's what Hawkwing was referring to, yes. Keep in mind that it has happened and will again, but that it doesn't happen at each and every rebirths of Hawkwing and LTT!

And there's not even a little clue that Latra was a Hero of the Horn, remember. We know for a fact Egwene is not even ta'veren, which makes the idea that Rand and her are in the kind situation where Hawkwing vs. LTT are on occasions most unlikely. Rand and Egwene have not "opposed one another", they've been largely kept apart and unable to interfere with one another's job, for the most part. They're brought back together only for the LB. What Egwene did is little different from what Mat, or Perrin have done, only she had it rougher than they have, because she's not ta'veren and couldn't be, the AS would either have been very afraid of her, or she would have been turned into a force to oppose Rand, which obviously isn't her role. Rand could not unite the world alone, his friends have done their parts.


But whether there's any truth to Egwene being LPD, there's certainly some deeper connection between her and Rand that is yet to be revealed.


Egwene is no different than the others placed near Rand. In one way or another, they are all important.
Reply to message
Who is reincarnation of who? - 01/02/2012 05:01:20 AM 1317 Views
Who is that generally accepted by? - 01/02/2012 05:26:27 AM 766 Views
No. We only know that Rand is LTT. - 01/02/2012 07:32:48 AM 798 Views
Wouldn't Elayne = Ilyena, if anyone? - 06/02/2012 02:09:26 PM 534 Views
Re: Wouldn't Elayne = Ilyena, if anyone? - 07/02/2012 03:59:27 PM 716 Views
Hmmm... - 07/02/2012 09:42:14 PM 582 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 08/02/2012 12:08:49 AM 666 Views
Great post, thanks for this. *NM* - 10/02/2012 06:32:32 PM 213 Views
It doesn't really matter. - 01/02/2012 07:55:18 AM 643 Views
Re: It doesn't really matter. - 01/02/2012 01:37:37 PM 655 Views
Re: It doesn't really matter. - 01/02/2012 02:42:42 PM 523 Views
I believe Aran'Gar is unique here - 02/02/2012 02:19:00 PM 456 Views
There are similar roles, but no definite reincarnations... - 01/02/2012 09:13:01 AM 509 Views
Padan Fain: - 07/02/2012 02:30:04 AM 461 Views
Considering the circular nature of time... - 10/02/2012 04:25:39 PM 440 Views

Reply to Message