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Re: Very unlikely that this was from the Natrins Barrow event, but the effect is similar enough that DomA Send a noteboard - 04/05/2012 03:20:20 PM
it may also have been a Balescream. Perhaps something happened offscreen that we will learn about during the LB ... I wonder if Moridin of one of the other Forsaken with a powerful angreal could have done some side mission.

Only half serious here, but why give a name to Balescream and have the effect be so similar for no reason?

Would be an interesting twist to discover Moridin or one of the others had a sa'angreal of such strength and had burned something massive from the pattern for unknown purposes... IIRC only Perrin and company felt this effect, suggesting a geographic limitation to a Balescream rather than a global effect... What sits in Northern Altara/Murrandy/Ghealdan that would be useful to destroy?



Why give a name to balescream? Why not, it's not likely such phenomenons happened before people started to massively use balefire. It doesn't mean such ripples when the Pattern has gotten weak are all balescreams...

All that Graendal's POV confirmed is that reality can ripple when the Pattern is weak and destabilized. I think people read way too much in a mention by Graendal which true purpose most likely was to remind the reader that what Rand has done was insane and didn't care for the consequences on the Pattern (a thematic point that culminated on Dragonmount, in the moment he considered destroying Creation, and before that had peaked when he considered destroying a whole city, not a single palace). It just made very concrete what convinced even the Shadow in the AOL to stop using balefire, and how far gone Rand was. The only source for theories the Shadow may be using massive balefire is one throwaway mention by the Dark One that was probably meant to test Demandred's real dedication (a question he incidentally didn't answer, as if he was way to fearful if he said "I would" the DO would ask him to prove it by using balefire massively. Demandred was terrified. I don't know why people got into their head that Demandred runs around balefiring stuff. Was his behavior after LOC that of a terrified man who knows he's working to unravel the Pattern? Of course not. Does it appear that unravelling the Pattern using Balefire is an option for the DO? Of course not, he let the Forsaken abandon the use of balefire in the WOS. It doesn't seem to lead to a victory of the Shadow, just a destruction of the Light.)

What's near Malden worth destroying on a massive scale, two times with a few days in between? Nothing at all, that's the point. It had to be very close, Perrin didn't feel the ripples in the Shaido camp, and Faile didn't feel those in Perrin's camp.
Malden is a bit in the middle of nowhere, in the ridge country. It's well off the main road north, well off from the river. It's very difficult to travel east-west in that area, because carts and horses can't pass the ridges. All massive enough to cause balescreams in that area was Malden itself, Galad's army and Asunawa's, the Shaido septs rushing toward Malden, and the possible Seanchan army (but Tylee would know if there were other armies around, and didn't mention any but those that were well east of there near the main road). All these groups are accounted for, none was balefired, let alone two different groups a few days apart. They were "in the same area" only after a fashion too. They were not just a few miles apart - Galad was 50 miles off the Seanchan camp, itself well distant from Perrin's and both quite removed from Malden (he Travelled from there to the battle site).

Balescreams are localized. No one outside Rand's storyline mentionned feeling them when he destroyed Natrim's Barrow. Graendal's description is similar but different from what Perrin and Faile described. For Graendal is came as a wave of wrongness, then the Pattern rippled. For Perrin/Faile, it was sudden, and the Pattern rippled three times.

Fairly few people who have gone in and out of Graendal's palace, so the destruction of a few days of all these threads would mostly have had local effects. It makes sense, since the rippling effect is likely the consequence of the Wheel either struggling to hold reality affected by the balefire, or re adjusting the Pattern.

As I tried to explain above, if the ripples are a shift of the Pattern, it doesn't follow that only balefire can cause them.

A ta'veren focussing thousands and thousands of often fairly reluctant people in one area on a single goal for so long, forcing his will on them for some, having no direct control on what was happening in Malden itself, might very well have been causing something like this, considering (as Graendal pointed out in the same book) the whole Pattern was weak and in a flux and spiking, making it very hard to locate ta'veren anymore. Faile's rescue was vital to keep Perrin sane and able to play his role as wolf king, time was running out and micro events involving large groups of people were important to make it happen, all in an area beset by chaos (eg: armies moving that had to get in just the right position: the Shaido septs not coming too close too fast, Galad's army advancing without Asunawa catching up before time, enough of the WO drinking the forkroot, Masema's group not moving on Perrin, none among the hundred of thousands in the shaido camp noticing what Faile and Galina were up and reporting to Sevanna to etc. Combine this with a Pattern being loose and it's not hard to imagine the Wheel struggled massively to keep things on track or that global re adjustements to reality may have been necessary.

This message last edited by DomA on 04/05/2012 at 03:24:30 PM
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KoD Balescream(s) - 28/04/2012 08:41:49 PM 1373 Views
Re: KoD Balescream(s) - 29/04/2012 12:07:51 AM 883 Views
Re: KoD Balescream(s) - 29/04/2012 02:17:23 PM 944 Views
I think the original poster - 29/04/2012 04:49:59 PM 805 Views
Re: I think the original poster - 29/04/2012 08:26:57 PM 803 Views
Isn't this the ripple? "As if reality itself rippled" or something? - 29/04/2012 07:40:54 PM 866 Views
Re: Isn't this the ripple? "As if reality itself rippled" or something? - 29/04/2012 08:29:23 PM 998 Views
Could the ripple have been a temporal echo from the Natrin's Barrow event? - 02/05/2012 08:14:39 AM 733 Views
Not likely - 02/05/2012 10:15:46 PM 783 Views
Re: KoD Balescream(s) - 29/04/2012 09:49:18 PM 929 Views
Re: KoD Balescream(s) - 29/04/2012 10:26:49 PM 778 Views
I'm gonna stick with "DO warping reality" - 30/04/2012 03:25:46 PM 673 Views
Re: I'm gonna stick with "DO warping reality" - 30/04/2012 03:55:55 PM 728 Views
Maybe the Pattern was screaming in frustration at how - 30/04/2012 04:08:37 PM 768 Views
Re: KoD Balescream(s) - 02/05/2012 06:53:02 PM 670 Views
It is referred to again. - 02/05/2012 08:04:23 PM 718 Views
Re: It is referred to again. - 02/05/2012 09:51:33 PM 643 Views
RJ spoke of it indirectly a few times - 02/05/2012 11:32:47 PM 988 Views
I thought the Perrin and Faile felt the same ripples... - 03/05/2012 03:51:54 PM 645 Views
The chronology - 03/05/2012 06:27:20 PM 691 Views
Or, it could be a mistake - 03/05/2012 06:57:11 PM 715 Views
Nah, it's definitely not a mistake - 03/05/2012 08:41:36 PM 2865 Views
Very unlikely that this was from the Natrins Barrow event, but the effect is similar enough that - 04/05/2012 12:38:21 PM 826 Views
Re: Very unlikely that this was from the Natrins Barrow event, but the effect is similar enough that - 04/05/2012 03:20:20 PM 1047 Views

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