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Odd and foolish as it sounds, I admit I had not considered the demands of cameras and lighting Joel Send a noteboard - 21/05/2012 04:57:38 PM
and convincing a lot of extras to fill roles in armies for no more reward than the privilege of saying they were on TV.


This is just not realistic.

About sets: building them is hardly the solution when you have so many... It's even more expensive than digital set extensions. GOT limits massively the number of sets, WOT past a certain point has many more locations to cover through one "season". Unlike GOT, it's far more urban.

Only sometimes, and many sets could be recycled with little difficulty. Obviously there are some regional architectural differences, but many would only be recognizable to hardcore fans, and a few cans of paint and canvasses for periodic minor modifications would not be terribly costly. Regional idiosyncracies aside, wattle and daub is pretty much the same in any locale, and its ubiquity during the Middle Ages was due to the very thing that would appeal to a movie set: It is easy, quick and CHEAP to produce. Only the Great Cities would present great demands, and much of those sets could likely be recycled as well, though contrasting Cairhiens stark lines with Caemlyns gentle curves would naturally require some rearrangement. I am not saying it would be completely trivial, but it would not be my major concern (though, if it is not obvious by now, I am fairly ignorant of film productions requirements.)

As for crowds...

The salaries of the extras is but a small fraction of why big scale scenes cost so much.

You need big sets to use a lot of people in, and extra lights (you need to see the negotiation going between a director of photography and a production manager for each extra light to realize just how expensive that is). You need many extra set technicians to work on that scale. You need costumes for the extras, and props. You need additional camera teams on set to film big crowds, and all kind of expensive gear and coordinators to coordinate their efforts and make sure you get everything you need. You need extra production/director assistants to control and guide those crowds extras, even more when you work with non-professional extras (it makes production companies fairly insecure to work with non-pros. They do it when they need several hundreds and more, but they don't like it one bit). You can't just use anyone for battle scenes, you need trained extras - remember LOTR's huge scale bootcamps, and they used mostly people with martial arts training to speed things up. There are work laws, and union regulations. You need to feed those people, pay for security services, pay for mandatory emergency medical care on set (the more people, the more medics you need on stand-by... you're American, you must have an idea of expensive that gets...). You also need extra insurances for liabilities when you deal with crowds, especially for battle mock-ups, you need many extra stunt coordinators to keep everything safe. If you need to involve horses or other animals, it gets far worse still.

That's why more and more movies rely on crowd simulation softwares for big scale scenes, but those VFX are still massively expensive to use, that's why we still mostly see them only in big budget movies. One day maybe... 10 years ago having a CG wolf on TV was completely out of question, now a big budget mini-series can afford some "hero shots" of a wolf (and it was in part to cut production costs...).

Perhaps naïvely, I figured the camera and lighting demands would not be significantly greater than for any other film production, plus or minus a few wide angle lenses. Likewise the animal wrangling, but I see your point that added extras mean added liabilities, and industrialized democracies do tend to frown on free labor (although, if it were filmed in America, the nation is moving more and more toward that "ideal" daily, but that is another rant.... ;))

The casting problems are not merely because with such a huge cast you can't afford big names. It's largely a logistic problem. The bigger a cast, the larger the logistics problems to organize filming. The main and secondary cast are under contract, they're not the problemn (though for secondary players, you need to pay them well not to have any). In WOT the problem would be the sheer number of "guest star" type parts. They keep returning, often whole "seasons" apart. Elaida, Sheriam, Verin, Domon, Siuan until the mid-series, Thom until the 3rd book, Lan after TFOH, Moiraine is gone for several seasons. There are dozens of those, few of those comparable to Glorfindel. Those actors you can't have/keep under contract once they stop being regulars and in some cases until they become regulars once more. You must work around their various commitments and schedules. That's how it's done. E.g.: before they could bring back Rousseau in Lost, write her in further episodes, they needed to make sure Mira Furlan was available again and when, so they can determine in which episodes they could write her in. Before the writers know if they can bring back dead characters 2 seasons later in Fringe, they need to secure the participation of the actors again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just can't work and they must go in other directions. The more you rely on occasionally recurring guest stars, the more compromises you have to make (eg: you can't have Furlan for episodes 5 and 7, you need to change the story so you will need her in episodes 6 and 8 instead. That would make any network and production company extremly nervous the tertiary cast is recurring on such a large scale and for most with huge gaps between each appearance. Re-cast is possible, but very impractical for side players - the recurring actors is after all how you can avoid having to reintroduce those characters in a more involved way each time. If you're adapting a story, that's a nightmare. I can't think of any TV show that even attempted to work on anywhere close to that scale, casting wise. You cut the WOT cast by half among the recurring tertiary players and it would still be bigger than any show.

The difficulty of securing their services for years (or decades) despite multi-year gaps in between appearances is one of the biggest reasons I think established actors would be out of the question for parts not present in all but one or two books. If memory serves, EVERY character except Rand and the Wonder Girls has been absent from at least one book; Perrins total absence from TFoH is just one more reason it is my favorite, and Mats total absence from TPoD is just one more reason it is my most despised. Aviendha, a near constant presence either with the girls or Rand between TGH and ACoS, has rarely been sighted in recent volumes, but the actress playing her would need to be available at least until the "three on a boat" scene in the last novel.

Pretty much the only way that could work would be by seeking out unknown actors, and even then their time is unlikely to remain cheap and plentiful for years unless they are rather awful actors (not exactly the ideal one seeks to portray characters of any importance.) It is another argument in favor of a series, because the most critical roles could be guaranteed work at least every year or two rather than waiting five years for two or three more books to be turned into films. Also, because TV scripts are so much less than those of feature films, characters absent for whole books could be worked into new "outrigger" sideplots of their own, and events only alluded to and/or revealed by flashback in the series could be related when they actually happened.

I am somewhat playing Devils Advocate though; I really do not expect any live action production any time soon (perhaps when the economics of crowd simulators gains the TV accessibility CGI has.) The two years of story that has spanned two decades (plus) just makes the whole idea almost completely untenable.
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This message last edited by Joel on 21/05/2012 at 05:04:14 PM
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Movie - 10/05/2012 05:23:07 AM 1192 Views
Not likely to happen any time soon - 10/05/2012 11:23:33 PM 818 Views
Right People - 11/05/2012 01:16:55 AM 681 Views
Hollywood would just get it all wrong anyway. Are they going to do 12 movies? Otherwise, - 11/05/2012 03:04:32 PM 629 Views
I have always thought it would be much better - 12/05/2012 05:19:20 PM 744 Views
In many cases, adjacent books could be merged with little significant loss. - 14/05/2012 03:21:04 AM 1150 Views
That won't happen anytime soon anyway - 16/05/2012 03:08:00 AM 932 Views
A TV series is a lot more practical than a film series, since it is a soap opera in many ways. - 21/05/2012 01:23:04 AM 754 Views
Re: A TV series is a lot more practical than a film series, since it is a soap opera in many ways. - 21/05/2012 03:49:52 AM 1094 Views
I will have to take your word on the special effects. - 21/05/2012 08:05:46 AM 2556 Views
Re: I will have to take your word on the special effects. - 21/05/2012 03:41:47 PM 563 Views
Odd and foolish as it sounds, I admit I had not considered the demands of cameras and lighting - 21/05/2012 04:57:38 PM 672 Views
I can only imagine how horrible the Rand/Ishy fight on Toman Head would be *NM* - 13/05/2012 04:06:53 AM 293 Views
If you think THAT'S bad - 17/05/2012 02:03:00 AM 552 Views
It could be done, but nobody would be willing to - 16/05/2012 01:24:49 PM 874 Views

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