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Good to see the old crap is still spewing out... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 11/03/2015 07:33:18 AM

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1: After pitching a fit at Nynaeve and Elayne for trading Aes Sedai knowledge to the Sea Folk in order to get them to save the world from the Dark One’s touch, it is revealed that Egwene has been sharing that same knowledge to the Wise Ones to repay them for teaching her and “to meet a debt, she claimed”. In other words, recompense for the personal transgressions of Egwene is being bought with top secret Aes Sedai knowledge that may be not otherwise be shared, even to save the world.

An alternative theory of Egwene’s ire towards the Bowl bargain is the imprudence of the deal, but then how much more imprudent is her own? Nynaeve and Elayne had the excuse that the Sea Folk would not have given anything without the promise of teaching, but Egwene had already been taught, without the promise of reciprocity.


I'm amused that you chose only the teaching of weaves to compare. Did Egwene also make it so 20 Aes Sedai had to continuously teach the Wise Ones, and follow their laws while doing so? Did she give away the right for 20 Wise Ones to visit the White Tower at any one time and learn whatever they want, while being treated as guests?

I did a pretty thorough search, and not once does Egwene state she has any particular problems with White Tower knowledge being given away. Elayne, in her own thoughts, also doesn't consider that a major failure in their negotiation. In fact, when Egwene discusses how to handle the political pickle the Bargain puts her in, here's what she says:


"If need be, Siuan," she said irritably, "I'll just let the sisters talk to a few women a hundred years or more older than any of them. They may try to dismiss them as wilders and liars, but Reanne Corly can prove she was in the Tower, and when. So can others. With luck, I'll convince the sisters to accept being freed of the Three Oaths so they can retire into the Kin before they ever learn there's a bargain with the Atha'an Miere. And once they accept any sister being freed of the Oaths, it won't be nearly as hard to convince them to let the Sea Folk sisters go. Beside that, the rest of that agreement is small turnips. As you keep saying, skill and a deft hand are necessary to get anything done in the Hall, but luck is absolutely required. Well, I'll be as skillful and deft as I can be, and as for luck, the odds seem to be in my favor for once."

Since I know of no Aes Sedai that Egwene allowed to unswear their oath and join the Wise Ones for their teaching her about TAR, her actions are barely comparable to the Bargain.

Incidentally, while you are perfectly correct that the price of the Bargain was worth paying to save the world, I don't know of any instance where Egwene said anything different. Did she think Elayne and Nynaeve gave away too much? Yes. So did they. Its not like the bad weather wasn't affecting the Sea Folk as well.

In the end, every statement we have about Egwene's reaction to the bargain seems to be about the political fallout. Which she completely shielded Elayne and Nynaeve from, rather than even thinking of allowing them to take the fall so her position would be safe.


It’s okay to share secrets because Egwene lied to outsiders, and hopes to bring them under her rule, and in return for unasked payment for knowledge that Nynaeve and Elayne could have taught her for free.

You mean the knowledge of TAR that Egwene and the Wise Ones taught them??
Me, I’d rather learn from the woman who defeated the Forsaken who was mistress of Tel’Aran’Rhiod on her own turf, who impressed a Hero of the Horn and discovered the Bowl of Winds, than a bunch of racist witch doctors.

Not one of those things had to do with Nynaeve's skill in TAR. Why not add in her ability with tracking, and her preference for green and blue clothing in that list? Egwene needed to know how to handle TAR, and how to interpret dreams, and communicate using them. None of those were areas where Nynaeve had any knowledge at all.
Especially if the price for the latter was classified information that could not even be disseminated to the people who used their unique skills to save the world, and the price for the former was being nice to Nynaeve al’Meara, the greatest and most accomplished initiate in the history of the White Tower. But I can see how Egwene would find that last one unthinkable.

Uhh... that's quite some revising of the story. Nynaeve knew nothing of TAR before the Wise Ones taught her. In fact, they wanted to teach her more because they saw she could do well, but she refused them.

Nynaeve was quick, and maximized the advantage of Moghedien's cowardice, but none of this translates to her being anything close to good with TAR. In fact, when the surprise aspect was reversed, it was Nynaeve who was helplessly caught in Moghedien's trap, and would have ended dead, or severely damaged but for Birgette's intervention. On the other hand, Egwene escaped a complicated trap laid by Moghedien without any difficulty.

This message last edited by fionwe1987 on 11/03/2015 at 07:34:22 AM
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