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Re: And yet it all turns out well Cannoli Send a noteboard - 26/04/2015 11:24:54 PM


It's good to see Egwene's Evil making a return, but if we get serious about it, none of this matters because in the greater scheme of things she turned out to be magnificent. There are 3 things that pretty much make "Egwene's Evil" moot...
  1. She destroyed Mesaana who was busy causing havoc in the Tower. This allowed the BA to fall eventually and allowed for a united Tower to fight at TG.
Did she? Mesaana fell, but all she was doing was causing havoc in the Tower. I have yet to see any evidence that the Tower made much of a contribution. Aes Sedai, sure. Female channelers, sure. The Tower, as an organization and institution? Nope. Even if Egwene is genuinely responsible for everything she is credited with, her agenda and accomplishments are all geared around the preservation of a moribund institution that has done more harm than good. The Tower is like a man who has hoarded a critical resource, prevented it from being exploited to its greatest benefit, and then demands assistance because everyone else will be screwed without that resource he has kept out of their hands. Throughout the series, everyone has done much better than the Tower. Their advantages in channeling over the Sea Folk & Wise Ones are due to less pressure enabling them to preserve a more broad array of knowledge, though that was none too broad itself. And most Egwene fans are full of high dudgeon and defend her criticism of Nynaeve and Elayne for making a bargain with an ancillary benefit being the dissemination of that hoarded knowledge, to women who are better channelers. The Sea Folk and Wise Ones are like marksmen who have had to perfect their skills and get their kills with antiquated or obsolete weapons, while the Aes Sedai carelessly flaunt their machine guns, which they master only enough to maintain their security over the unarmed. We need to get those machine guns into the hands of the marksmen and huntresses, rather than the bureaucrats. That's why they have all those skills like the Windfinder facility with weaves that enabled Talaan to beat Nynaeve with skill, when most Aes Sedai could not shield a woman so matched in strength. They were also noted as loosing fireballs at the Seanchan raken faster than the sisters, because they didn't need to move their arms to make the weaves. Aviendha shared that quality, and Sorilea criticized Aes Sedai ability as being impeded by their reliance on gestures. Where Cadsuane's attitude in that conversation indicates the Aes Sedai would not bother with the effort to overcome the handicaps of learning a second way, the Aiel apparently strive to do it the best, and to correct the faults of channelers, rather than shrugging them off. Their willingness to experiment and overcome difficulties through effort and practice allow them to perform feats like unraveling gateways.

Egwene saving the Tower, if that's what she did, only preserved the obstruction to superior channeling practices becoming dominant. Her theoretical feat is only important, because of the Tower's unwarranted dominance, that all but holds the world hostage. At the time of her plotline, we assumed that the social position of the Tower was necessary or critical to getting Rand's agenda through, but the only contribution the Tower made institutionally was by being manipulated by Rand.

As far as channelers went, there was no special Tower knowledge that made them more effective or gave them greater contributions to the Last Battle. Rand had the entire Windfinder population of the Sea Folk, he had the Aiel who outnumbered the Tower by a factor of six, he had his own sworn Aes Sedai to add a patina of legitimacy if it was ever really needed in the end, and he had the Black Tower. Most contributions made by actual Aes Sedai were without Egwene's input, and in spite of the Tower, rather than through it.

And was it really Egwene who did the saving? Because IIRC, the sine qua non of her win was Perrin's coincidental arrival with the dreamspike. She had a shitty plan, the Wise Ones and Perrin made a mockery of her supposed expertise in Tel'Aran'Rhiod, and her victory was over one of the least impressive Forsaken, because they were both stupid enough to think that Egwene being the Amyrlin Seat mattered. I'm pretty sure that if Mesaana actually became an nuisance to anyone who mattered, they'd have swatted her in short order.


2. She saved the Tower from the Seanchan. See above.
The "Tower" was in no danger from the Seanchan. Rather, she handed the Seanchan their victory. According to the Seanchan leaders before sending the attack, the acquisition of Traveling would make the operation a success, even if their air force took 100% casualties in getting it. They did, only because Egwene's indefensible screw-ups caused Elaida and other sisters in the Tower to learn it. Beyond that, the Seanchan had no plans to destroy the Tower, only to make off with as many damane as they could carry away.
3. She destroyed a great portion of Demandred's channelers and defeated Taim (martyring herself in the process). This turned the tide of the battle.
Egwene's best use is being expended.
All in all, she got the job done. Without those three acts the WT would never have fought at TG and would have been as disastrous as the BT. The rest is a lot of nitpicking and anal analysis - you could probably find evil in any person struggling to get to the top and avoiding death or worse, but on an outcomes basis, only Rand is better than Egwene.
By your measurement, Brandon Sanderson is the key to the literary success of the series, because he wrote the books at the end. Without him, the story would never have had a conclusion and been pointless.
Sorry if I skipped ahead, but the point of my post is that all of this is useless if you look at how the series ended.

It's a journey, not a destination. And even if you achieve a successful end, that doesn't mean everything you did was right. Successful people look at what they did and how they could do it better, that's how they stay successful. A major theme of the Last Battle, as relating to Rand's reincarnated status was "getting it right this time." You can't do that unless you know what went wrong last time.
I'm also not saying that the means justify the end, merely that the worst thing she has done is be a bitch, or stupid, or mean, or disloyal, or cruel... there's no criminal act in any of this. You people just don't like her because she's probably a bitch, but then so is Tuon, Nynaeve, Cadsuane... and about 500 other characters.
By that's not true. They might have made mistakes and acted incorrectly, but they did not do so nearly as consistently as Egwene did, and for the most part, a lot of their issues have mitigating explanations. For Egwene, even her positive acts or effects have incriminating explanations or ramifications.
Interesting to see some of you still hanging around here...
WoT is the core of our community. Unless we keep that alive, we won't be a thing anymore.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Egwene's Evil Vol XI: The Gathering Storm, pt 1 - 08/04/2015 10:30:42 PM 7336 Views
Nice! Thank you for this. - 10/04/2015 04:50:28 AM 828 Views
elaidas good - 13/04/2015 10:10:54 AM 1147 Views
Re: elaidas good - 13/04/2015 10:16:09 AM 791 Views
oh and as far as egwene in the white tower - 13/04/2015 10:26:43 AM 777 Views
also im farily convinced egwene is actually 15 or 16 - 13/04/2015 10:30:43 AM 897 Views
That's actually a speculative theory of mine. - 13/04/2015 08:04:11 PM 869 Views
Re: That's actually a speculative theory of mine. - 20/04/2015 03:53:19 PM 688 Views
That's actually a speculative theory of mine. - 13/04/2015 08:04:11 PM 894 Views
That would actually be kind of awesome, I wish that was explored more - 17/04/2015 02:05:36 PM 774 Views
You edit by logging on in the box to the left. - 13/04/2015 08:07:50 PM 681 Views
You edit by logging on in the box to the left. - 13/04/2015 08:07:51 PM 656 Views
Too Funny - 13/04/2015 07:17:24 PM 796 Views
I have never actually claimed that. - 13/04/2015 08:20:20 PM 966 Views
Agree. - 20/04/2015 03:56:42 PM 677 Views
Point 4 - indeed - 16/04/2015 10:04:20 PM 739 Views
Re: Egwene's Evil Vol XI: The Gathering Storm, pt 1 - 21/04/2015 03:15:42 PM 1022 Views
Re: Egwene's Evil Vol XI: The Gathering Storm, pt 1 - 21/04/2015 07:56:41 PM 1373 Views
Tuon, Toun! - 21/04/2015 08:27:56 PM 862 Views
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And yet it all turns out well - 26/04/2015 09:38:42 AM 963 Views
Re: And yet it all turns out well - 26/04/2015 11:24:54 PM 1047 Views
Re: And yet it all turns out well - 01/05/2015 10:59:38 AM 811 Views

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