Re: You people are the insane ones - Edit 2
Before modification by Cannoli at 30/12/2015 11:55:55 AM
What the hell is a whole thing?
Now? Yes. Because the only point I'm trying to make is that arguing with you about Egwene is pointless. I'm not refuting specific points you make by resorting to ad hominem attacks. I'm arguing that trying to refute anything is meaningless, when it comes to this issue.
And you think that's better? You're ducking entire arguments, whole topics of conversation, by claiming I can't have a valid opinion because you disagree with me on it. You're claiming that being genocidal is better than homicidal.
Nice straw man. I never accused you of any such thing.
I never said you did, I was responding to a post by Sidious, where, in response to a common complaint I have made through the entire series, he chose to highlight a handful of incidents not only exclusively drawn from the books by Sanderson, but taking place after the majority of the series was over.
This just makes no sense. Saerin took a small bunch of Aes Sedai, used her authority as a Sitter, and made them not panic and do a basic job of defending their position. Not close to bad, but how the heck is this comparable to converting a bunch of Novices into a coherent fighting force,
She didn't! She simply drew on their strength. They didn't fight at all. She didn't teach them advanced techniques, she just leeched off their power. Not only that, these were women harshly disciplined into a total lack of agency. Giving orders to such people and making them obey is easier, which is why it is done to them in the first place. Saerin induced willful women used to fighting for every scrap of authority and autonomy they could get, to cooperate under her. If you think that the be all and end all of leadership is simply holding a title, that having legal authority all by itself is sufficient to get people to obey, you obviously haven't read the whole Wheel of Time series. If having a title makes leadership easy and undermines any accomplishments, Egwene has had the highest title, and did absolutely nothing before being randomly handed it, so YOU are the one who has been excessive in your praise for the whole series.
teaching them advanced techniques at a time of panic and chaos, then using that knowledge to let them hold various defensive positions while she herself mounted the most effective offense?
She DIDN'T mount an offense! She never fought except against attackers.
How is this what she did? She saw a critical weakness in the protection of the Tower's most destructive weapons: in a chaotic situation where no one was paying attention to the wards, anyone could weave a Gateway and take what they want... including Forsaken. Worse, Egwene's actions have just let the cat out of the bag.
What do you want her to do? Do the equivalent of posting the nuclear codes on the internet for everyone to see so that in case of emergency someone can use them, never mind that someone can in fact cause the emergency by stealing a sa'angreal?
No, I am asking her to NOT lock up all the guns, AFTER the war has already broken out. You're comparing items that merely alter the degree of effectiveness to strategic weapons, but I'M the one who is distorting things. Okay. Sure. 
She had them hidden, and unlike Elaida, had no illusions of the Tower being invulnerable. In an emergency, the people in the know could access the sa'angreal and distribute them. We're not made privy to any emergency plans she put in place, Sanderson being Sanderson,
In the first place, Sanderson being Sanderson, how can you credit anything characters do under his watch, and in the second, Aes Sedai being Aes Sedai, it's a pretty good bet there are no sensible emergency plans. The Salidar group is much more free of stagnant mentalities and more open to reforms, but their whole plan for responding to an attack by the Forsaken or Seanchan or anyone at all is "Form circles!"
but if you think it is in her character to not account for this possibility, then you are once again distorting and misrepresenting to suit your bias.
Your assumption that she IS doing something unprecedented is just as much a factor of your bias, as my assumption that she is not doing something she has never done before. On the contrary, Egwene has a history of overreacting, for which you and your kind make allowances. Her murder of the helpless sul'dam for one thing.
This is a flat out lie. She overdrew because she was exactly matched with Taim. She needed the extra power to push through his Balefire. Once that was done, she could have released the Source and hoped that all that happened was that she burned out, and then Mat would have been left with 400 odd Sharan channelers to deal with, AND the world would have had a new Bore to contend with right as Rand was at the cusp of complete defeat in the Dark One's hands. Or she could draw in even more amounts of the OP, and destroy the Sharans and close the new hole in the Pattern in one swoop, consequences to herself be damned.
with no evidence in her PoV that she was even considering her own place in history or how this moment would be viewed!
Only her own SPEECH. She had a past history of doing exactly that. Rand, who is constantly predicting her responses with accuracy and seeing right through her, comes to the same conclusion.
Isn't that textbook bias? You have concluded she is a megalomaniac, so of course she must be, so the lack of evidence doesn't matter, because... you said so?
That's exactly what you are doing. Egwene is good, therefore anything she did that works out well was done with the best of intentions, and anything she did that is half-assed and incomplete, she fixed behind the scenes, despite no indication whatsoever of her doing so. And anyone who disagrees is dismissed as insane and irrational.
Yet another straw man. Please tell me where I said Egwene killing captured Aes Sedai was a good thing, or in character, for that matter. Where did I say that holding these positions makes you rabid?
EDIT: I see now my prior comment lined up under the wrong post. I thought I was responding to Sidious because he was last on the thread.