Re: I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
Sidious Send a noteboard - 04/01/2010 09:50:38 AM
There is a big difference between him telling us "Merean was overwhelmingly stronger than Moiraine, when in fact she was only slightly stronger.
I'm not a fan of misquoting in general, or hyperbole.
I also think it's interesting that you take certain Moiraine-isms as irrefutable (candles v. bonfires), but write off Egwene/Aviendha can overwhelm a FS as crap.
Fionwe accused me of the opposite - saying that I trust Egwene's opinion too much over Moiraine's. Besides, I've never said that it was crap. I merely stated that you don't know how strong either woman is that stage, which is true, and that Moiraine mentioned several Forsaken as potential candidates who might be overwhelmed. I was focussed more on your erroneous statement that Moiraine said that the two women could defeat Lanfear.
and yet he came up with 21 levels? I sincerely doubt RJ came up with a system at all to be honest... this is just a bunch of people trying to match things to the evidence as we read it. This system is how I currently think of things... as I get new information I'll probably change my thoughts
I'm pretty sure RJ doesn't know the absolute strengths of the channelers.
She doesn't think Nynaeve can do it either:
TSR
Perhaps Nynaeve could come close, if she was angry enough, but Egwene knew she herself could never have done what he just had, split her flows that many ways, worked that many things at once. Working two flows at once was far more than twice as hard as working one of the same magnitude, and working three much more than twice again working two. He had to have been weaving a dozen.
TSR
Perhaps Nynaeve could come close, if she was angry enough, but Egwene knew she herself could never have done what he just had, split her flows that many ways, worked that many things at once. Working two flows at once was far more than twice as hard as working one of the same magnitude, and working three much more than twice again working two. He had to have been weaving a dozen.
She thinks Nynaeve alone could come closer than both she and Elayne could against Rand.
Yet in KoD Egwene goes on to weave 14 flows at once...
So?
Also, Nynaeve is far closer to her total potential at this point than Egwene and Elayne could possibly be. By the end of this book Nynaeve is strong enough to go toe to toe with Moghedien. She'd have to be at least close to 85% to manage that since there is no way Moghedien any weaker than that and still alive.
That's a huge mass of assumptions. Moghedien was known for her weakness - she says so openly to the Dark One. She never attended Forsaken meetings and only spied on them until she was mindtrapped. That's why she's alive. You've got no proof that Nynaeve is far closer to anything.
Ultimately the only real difference I see in our take on OP Strength is where Egwene falls on the scale and the general divides you put between the FS, I think they are all much closer together than you do. I also think Egwene is far closer to Nynaeve and the Forsaken than she is to Moiraine and the AS.
I think there are equal spaces between Nynaeve - Egwene - Moiraine i.e. one average Sister's strength.
I also think we see "effectiveness" differently. IMO effectiveness simply means that Lanfear can perform any feat with Saidar that Rand can with Saidin (he can Travel, she can Travel, he can use a Portal Stone, she can use a Portal Stone) ... it has little to do with Strength aside from the fact that a woman like Moiraine, no matter how skilled, will never be able to do certain things that Rand can because she's not strong enough.
Not true. When asked how many men would qualify for the White Tower, RJ said a slightly higher amount, but then added that because of dexterity, the number would be the same. Therefore they are identical in their capabilities, if not in their exact methods.
I don't think effectiveness has a whole lot to do with certain things, like holding a shield. Rand can probably force a shield on any woman below Lanfear's level and hold it, the reverse is likely not true when he is at 100% of his Strength. But I bet Lanfear (and probably Nyna) could hold a shield on him once it was placed there.
I don't really agree. I think saidar is a much more dense power like water, and saidin is like air. Men have larger volumes at their disposal but women have a more concentrated strength. Lanfear went after Rand with shielding at the end of FoH, and he himself said that he was at least as strong as Rahvin at that point.
It's also possible that Lanfear herself was somehow stronger than the 21 level list ('Finn theory or something like a gift from the DO) .... far fetched I'll give you ... making comparisons to her irrelevant!
RJ rubbished the Finn theory, and I don't think Lanfear was unnatural.
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One Power strength - critical analysis of previous posts and some further ideas
- 03/01/2010 07:59:24 AM
2698 Views
I support your view, with maybe a few comments to add...
- 03/01/2010 02:58:05 PM
1353 Views
where is this phantom quote of Egwene "not standing a chance"
- 03/01/2010 05:20:20 PM
1055 Views
Here's the real quote
- 03/01/2010 05:38:59 PM
1082 Views
Well that quote perfectly illustrates the skewed way in which you interpret the evidence...
- 03/01/2010 06:18:22 PM
1114 Views
I also think the quote is specific
- 03/01/2010 06:34:38 PM
1096 Views
Skill not Strength is the key that and the potential that another FS was with her
- 03/01/2010 06:51:46 PM
1082 Views
Bah
- 03/01/2010 07:13:01 PM
1034 Views
Who's arguing that?
- 03/01/2010 07:34:21 PM
1004 Views
What ARE you arguing?
- 03/01/2010 07:43:06 PM
1053 Views
That there is far more to strength in her quote!
- 03/01/2010 08:05:20 PM
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Re: That there is far more to strength in her quote!
- 04/01/2010 09:40:05 AM
1158 Views
and where do I ever say Elayne is only a small step below Moghedien?
- 04/01/2010 03:08:37 PM
1070 Views
You more than imply it with your own list
- 04/01/2010 03:39:06 PM
1083 Views
and you are fixated on simple strength to the exclusion of everything else
- 04/01/2010 05:05:54 PM
1059 Views
Re: and you are fixated on simple strength to the exclusion of everything else
- 04/01/2010 06:46:45 PM
1469 Views
Tiny Unimportant Objection to "Bell Curve" Point
- 03/01/2010 03:09:55 PM
1210 Views
Re: Tiny Unimportant Objection to "Bell Curve" Point
- 03/01/2010 04:39:25 PM
1119 Views
I've got a slightly revised opinion than my last post
- 03/01/2010 05:16:39 PM
1292 Views
Re: I've got a slightly revised opinion than my last post
- 03/01/2010 06:31:09 PM
1217 Views
It's actually not that complicated ... simple math actually
- 03/01/2010 07:08:52 PM
1065 Views
Yes, but to think that RJ put that much effort into it is improbable
- 03/01/2010 07:19:13 PM
1108 Views
I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
- 03/01/2010 07:56:17 PM
1012 Views
Re: I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
- 04/01/2010 09:50:38 AM
1136 Views
Re: I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
- 04/01/2010 03:26:10 PM
1185 Views
Re: I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
- 04/01/2010 03:52:19 PM
1059 Views
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth
- 04/01/2010 05:09:15 PM
1006 Views
Dude
- 04/01/2010 06:21:28 PM
957 Views
Dude, please go back to Fionwe's post
- 04/01/2010 06:35:03 PM
1034 Views
A reply...
- 03/01/2010 06:02:33 PM
1020 Views
The Tower sample is skewed allright, but to the upper side of the strength range...
- 03/01/2010 06:36:45 PM
1205 Views
Re: A reply...
- 03/01/2010 07:09:55 PM
1134 Views
I think distance is related to Strength
- 03/01/2010 07:21:46 PM
1044 Views
Re: A reply...
- 03/01/2010 08:38:07 PM
1216 Views
amusing side note
- 04/01/2010 05:22:39 AM
1006 Views
Which is exactly what I envisage the AOL distribution to have looked like...
- 04/01/2010 07:03:51 AM
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Re: Which is exactly what I envisage the AOL distribution to have looked like...
- 04/01/2010 03:29:47 PM
1010 Views
It may sound silly, but did you look at One Power values in the Wheel of Time CCG?
- 05/01/2010 12:56:41 AM
1532 Views
Re: It may sound silly, but did you look at One Power values in the Wheel of Time CCG?
- 05/01/2010 07:33:21 AM
1113 Views