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I might agree with her on your projected Verin scenario Cannoli Send a noteboard - 06/02/2010 11:35:47 PM

I think one of the most telling instances of her inconstancy is with regards to Verin. After her vehement 'better dead than collared' and 'better dead, if it's for the good of the Tower' self-delusional BS POV, one would expect her to come down in harsh judgement upon one who, even if contributing to some kind of greater good, made the decision to join the Black Ajah rather than die right there on the spot. But instead, because Egwene only sees her star rising as the one who rooted out the BA (and, granted, her 'I'm ultimately on the side of the light' inspiration to do so as well), she's all 'oh but your soul is pure white, dear Verin'. I'm sure if she were in public, and her position and appearance of authority were in view, she would have probably said 'thank you very much Verin but tower law says we execute you. Goodnight!'

I don't know about execution, but the fact is, Verin did go over to the Black Ajah to save her own ass, as she admits. She did her best to make up for it, but she no doubt had to do some pretty rotten things to keep her membership active. There had to be payback, and I think Verin herself understood that. On the other hand, she WAS dying and she DID perform a significant and important for the Tower and the Light, so comforting her as she dies doesn't cost anything.

But it's exactly that shifting moral compass and the ability to sniff out what is the appropriate way to appear to humanly interact with some and act as the Amyrlin to others that Egwene has a virtual Talent for, and while it makes her a somewhat reprehensible human being, it does make her about the best an Amyrlin could hope to be.

If you define an Amyrlin in terms of her success in the Tower. IMO a good Amyrlin should be someone who has done great things for the world with her power, and not by imposing some sort of social or political order on it. You can understand why the Tower would consider a woman who did great things for the Tower, if not the world, to be a Great Amyrlin, but admiring and praising someone for suspect criteria like being the longest-reigning Amyrlin simply because she was chosen for bad reasons at an impossibly young age or because the Aes Sedai admired her ability to spin webs of BS and manipulate the Tower and its process to keep in charge of the political situation while enhancing her own power. But the Aes Sedai admire the latter, adn are going to praise Egwene for doing them, leading to PoV-entrapped fans parroting her senseless acclaim.

Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!

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I was wrong about Egwene. Cannoli - 06/02/2010 09:46:43 AM 2099 Views

BTW, I am the god of Irony. Bow to me. *NM* Cannoli - 06/02/2010 09:47:20 AM 474 Views

I think that if there's a real message to take out of this Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 02:55:47 PM 968 Views

yes she's politically shrewd if completely amoral Zaphod - 06/02/2010 05:03:19 PM 863 Views

Re: yes she's politically shrewd if completely amoral Gerbeaud - 06/02/2010 06:08:40 PM 911 Views

In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him Cannoli - 06/02/2010 11:28:37 PM 960 Views

Re: In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him Datakim - 06/02/2010 11:47:04 PM 745 Views

Re: In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him Cannoli - 07/02/2010 02:43:13 AM 808 Views

Re: In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him Gerbeaud - 07/02/2010 11:13:39 PM 896 Views

I might agree with her on your projected Verin scenario Cannoli - 06/02/2010 11:35:47 PM 1060 Views

It really is her most defining quality beetnemesis - 06/02/2010 06:27:17 PM 737 Views

That was nothing. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:48:39 PM 743 Views

The only mitigating factor was that she had already dumped Rand at that time beetnemesis - 06/02/2010 11:34:45 PM 873 Views

Re: The only mitigating factor was that she had already dumped Rand at that time Cannoli - 06/02/2010 11:51:48 PM 744 Views

Hah! beetnemesis - 07/02/2010 02:22:30 PM 735 Views

There was a nice beginning - "Cannoli: I was wrong about Egwene"...

Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 06:42:18 PM 795 Views

I think the title summarizes years of debate *NM* Sidious - 07/02/2010 09:26:35 AM 561 Views

A point to understand about Egwene as a ruler... (Incoming wall'o'text... vandevere - 07/02/2010 06:43:43 PM 1026 Views

Sure, way to convince me. Compare her to two of the most despicable Anglophonic rulers in history Cannoli - 08/02/2010 05:18:55 AM 868 Views

I like Egwene. Helene - 08/02/2010 10:22:14 AM 774 Views

And the greater good always conveniently requires her being in charge or getting more power *NM* Cannoli - 12/02/2010 12:19:05 AM 351 Views

Yes, just like for Rand. *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/02/2010 12:24:57 AM 305 Views

And the rest of the Randland Justice League. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 12/02/2010 05:25:38 PM 312 Views

Re: Rand goes out of his way to discarge authority to others; Egwene, well hopefully in the future *NM* Knightscape - 13/02/2010 04:20:31 AM 357 Views

Ummm... what? When? *NM* fionwe1987 - 13/02/2010 04:53:50 AM 304 Views

Like his Stewards & supporting loyal rulers. *NM* Cannoli - 15/02/2010 02:30:32 PM 340 Views

Darlin, Caroline, Elayne, Ituralde, Bashere, Logain, Rhuarc, etc. Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 05:57:05 PM 890 Views

Oh you mean all those guys he treats like his personal b*tches? *NM* darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 06:10:17 PM 416 Views

Re: Oh you mean all those guys he treats like his personal b*tches? BlackAdder - 16/02/2010 08:10:02 PM 764 Views

Agreed, that's what I've been saying. Lord Haart - 16/02/2010 08:23:14 PM 775 Views

Well, Egwene has lackeys too! fionwe1987 - 15/02/2010 08:12:17 PM 657 Views

Re: Well, Egwene has lackeys too! Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 10:37:50 PM 635 Views

And she does not delegate to them. And no, sorting out rank among minions is not delegating power Cannoli - 15/02/2010 11:00:03 PM 1080 Views

Rand can certainly be domineering, but nowhere near as much as Egwene. Lord Haart - 13/02/2010 06:31:15 AM 915 Views

right, because she's threatened to hang people who disobey, or bodily thrown people out of her rooms darius_sedai - 15/02/2010 06:11:18 PM 684 Views

She's in a different environment. What serious challenge has she faced? Lord Haart - 15/02/2010 06:54:53 PM 764 Views

people like her in real life are not likeable, but they are necessary in society. mazza3 - 08/02/2010 09:55:35 PM 781 Views

Yup, hopefully she'll be killed, then stilled. BlackAdder - 13/02/2010 11:03:51 PM 666 Views

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<quote id="78978">
<quote id="78866">I think one of the most telling instances of her inconstancy is with regards to Verin. After her vehement 'better dead than collared' and 'better dead, if it's for the good of the Tower' self-delusional BS POV, one would expect her to come down in harsh judgement upon one who, even if contributing to some kind of greater good, made the decision to join the Black Ajah rather than die right there on the spot. But instead, because Egwene only sees her star rising as the one who rooted out the BA (and, granted, her 'I'm ultimately on the side of the light' inspiration to do so as well), she's all 'oh but your soul is pure white, dear Verin'. I'm sure if she were in public, and her position and appearance of authority were in view, she would have probably said 'thank you very much Verin but tower law says we execute you. Goodnight!'</quote> I don't know about execution, but the fact is, Verin did go over to the Black Ajah to save her own ass, as she admits. She did her best to make up for it, but she no doubt had to do some pretty rotten things to keep  her membership active.  There had to be payback, and I think Verin herself understood that.  On the other hand, she WAS dying and she DID perform a significant and important for the Tower and the Light, so comforting her as she dies doesn't cost anything.

<quote>But it's exactly that shifting moral compass and the ability to sniff out what is the appropriate way to  appear to humanly interact with some and act as the Amyrlin to others that Egwene has a virtual Talent for, and while it makes her a somewhat reprehensible human being, it does make her about the best an Amyrlin could hope to be.</quote> If you define an Amyrlin in terms of her success in the Tower.  IMO a good Amyrlin should be someone who has done great things for the world with her power, and not by imposing some sort of social or political order on it. You can understand why the Tower would consider a woman who did great things for the Tower, if not the world, to be a Great Amyrlin, but admiring and praising someone for suspect criteria like being the longest-reigning Amyrlin simply because she was chosen for bad reasons at an impossibly young age or because the Aes Sedai admired her ability to spin webs of BS and manipulate the Tower and its process to keep in charge of the political situation while enhancing her own power.  But the Aes Sedai admire the latter, adn are going to praise Egwene for doing them, leading to PoV-entrapped fans parroting her senseless acclaim.
</quote>

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