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Re: /Tolkein - Questions about the Elven Rings of Power DomA Send a noteboard - 09/05/2010 11:25:48 PM
1. Is there any evidence that Gandalf ever used Narya during the three books? Considering it was rumoured to cause courage in the hearts of men, could one assume that he used it at the great battles like the Pelenor fields to rouse some bravery in the soldiers?


It appears that Gandalf the Grey never wielded Narya openly. He was probably very circumspect about using it and "cloaked it" like Elrond and Galadriel. It seems he used Narya openly only after he's declared himself in the last war, as Gandalf the White. Frodo never saw him wield his power openly (before the rescue, anyway).

There's little doubt he was using Narya's power to discreetely increase his own power as a Maia to foster hope and courage, in others and probably in himself as well. Saruman despaired and fell to Sauron, he didn't.

The Ring bearers can see one another's rings. How did Frodo not see Gandalf's, yet he saw Galadriel's? Was he perhaps just not observant?


Gandalf and Elrond were more circumspect about their rings. Sauron long suspected Elrond and Galadriel wielded a ring because their realms could withstand his power, but he wasn't certain, and apparently didn't know a Maia wielded the third Elvish ring. He probably assumed it protected the Grey Havens. I assume Saruman thought the same thing or he would have ressented Gandalf even more, and much earlier than he did.

Galadriel was much prouder than Elrond or Gandalf about her power (she retains a bit of the arrogance, and much of the pride of her line). Frodo saw her ring, because she wielded it and wanted him to see it. The One Ring let him see it, but she didn't lift the power that hid it for Sam or anyone else. She wanted Frodo to know she was sacrifing Lothlorien and her people by supporting his quest, in part to inspire him in his quest, in part out of bitterness that the power of her ring would also vanish and the time of the Elves was over and she wanted Frodo to know of her sacrifice and commitment, in part out of pure pride for who she was, her ancestry and the power she could wield, and the achievements of her race in Middle-Earth. Tolkien didn't "taint" Galadriel as he did Feanor (e..g she didn't participate in the massacre - and she was in the entourage of a Maia before the flooding), but she still was part of the "rebels" and part of her most likely didn't look forward to abandon her power in Middle-Earth and return under the thumb of the Valar, even though she had resolved herself to that fate and had long worked against Sauron and with the Valar's Maia envoys. IRRC, Tolkien saw Galadriel as a kind of redeeming figure in her Elvish line. Her decision to forsake the power of her line, resist the temptation of the One Ring (making herself a lesser Sauron, just like Sauron was a lesser Morgoth and return to Valinor was sort of the closure to Feanor's story. But her pride was still great. She still saw that fate as "diminishing".

3. When Gandalf tells the Balrog that he is the 'servant of the secret fire, keeper of the flame of Anor', is he referring to the Ring?


No, but I don't recall for sure what he was referring to. I think the "secret fire" has to do with the powers of Iluvatar and Valinor and the specific Valar Olorin was serving - Gandalf's power had to do with fire (fireworks is a triffling example, and the flame of his staff), another of the Maia had powers over fauna etc. I always thought he was warning the Balrog, a Maia twisted by Morgoth, about the source of the power linked to Valinor or Iluvatar within his staff (that Saruman had made sure to take from him when he held him prisoner, just like Gandalf broke his later). I always assumed the Valar who sent him on his mission had put the flame of Anor or some of its power within Olorin's staff and made him the keeper of this secret fire...

Tolkien has not left all that much concrete information about the back story of the Maia sent to Middle-Earth. I can't recall if he explained what the flame of Anor was.


4. Why did Gil-galad give the greatest of the Rings to Elrond? One would think that he'd give it to Galadriel who is far older and of the highest kin amongst the Noldor.


Galadriel already had her ring and invested its power in Lothlorien, and Elrond had his invested in Rivendell. Wasn't Gil-Galad's ring left at the third Elvish kindgom (the Grey Havens) in the possession of the Shipwright who gave it to Gandalf when he landed the first time from Valinor?

5. Why were the Elves not dominated by the Rings like men were?


First because the three Elvish rings were hidden from Sauron, who never touched them, and what the ring bearers accomplished with their rings wasn't corrupted the same way as the power of the lesser rings were. The bearers were also able to hide them from Sauron after he lost the One Ring. Also, Gandalf was a powerful Maia like Sauron, and the Elves were very powerful and forewarned against Sauron the second he unveiled the One Ring, whereas the nine Men were not, and their hearts were easier to corrupt.

6. Is there any evidence that the Rings of Power failed when the One Ring was destroyed? As far as I can tell, the Elves were merely paranoid about it and went to the West 'in case' their lands withered.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. The power of their rings ended with the destruction of the One Ring - as they knew it would, and they left Middle-Earth a few years after, after the exile of their people was finished. We don't need more evidence than the ring bearers saying this was happening. Everything they had done wasn't undone right away, it faded, and Elrond and Galadriel both wielded considerable personal power even without their rings. The power in Lothlorien kept fading as Galadriel went away and returned a bit as Arwen went to live there after Aragorn's death, but it faded away for good after Arwen's death, as it had presumably done at Rivendell by then.

This message last edited by DomA on 09/05/2010 at 11:31:47 PM
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/Tolkein - Questions about the Elven Rings of Power - 09/05/2010 06:20:16 PM 1485 Views
Interesting - and rather appropriate, as I'm watching RotK. - 09/05/2010 06:31:43 PM 938 Views
Watching RotK is never appropriate - 09/05/2010 09:01:59 PM 840 Views
Does it help if watching it didn't improve my opinion of it? - 09/05/2010 10:13:05 PM 863 Views
Re: Does it help if watching it didn't improve my opinion of it? - 10/05/2010 09:45:23 AM 805 Views
Hey I love those movies - 10/05/2010 11:12:53 AM 965 Views
Re: /Tolkein - Questions about the Elven Rings of Power - 09/05/2010 08:22:09 PM 964 Views
Thank you kindly for the detailed answers *NM* - 10/05/2010 11:13:10 AM 496 Views
Re: /Tolkein - Questions about the Elven Rings of Power - 09/05/2010 11:25:48 PM 871 Views
Re: /Tolkein - Questions about the Elven Rings of Power - 10/05/2010 11:26:16 AM 1121 Views
Some Answers, I think. - 10/05/2010 04:17:59 PM 914 Views
A definitive answer for one of your questions - 10/05/2010 04:27:24 PM 837 Views
Answers (pretty sure of most of these)... - 10/05/2010 05:44:10 PM 830 Views
Wow, impressive answers.....thanks! *NM* - 16/05/2010 05:34:54 AM 446 Views
My work here is done. *NM* - 10/05/2010 06:02:51 PM 369 Views

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