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Re: *lol* Don't give up on your thesis just yet. Camilla Send a noteboard - 08/06/2010 12:54:53 PM
My reaction to being tricked was the complete opposite, and I always thought everyone loved that. I mean, that is pretty much the foundation for my thesis. Shit.

I think there are different kinds of being tricked. I liked things like Andromas turning out to be Elisabeth, or the mimes thing - there were hints, it would've been possible to figure it out, but most people wouldn't have. What I don't like is being not merely tricked, but lied to - and then being expected to have seen through that. Perhaps I've read too many detective stories. :P Or not enough unreliable narrator ones. I loved, say, The Remains of the Day. Stevens is an unreliable narrator, too, not talking about some things and saying other things that aren't true, but in such a way that you understand that they aren't true, and also understand why he says them anyway.

I think for me the determining criterium that decides if I like being tricked by a book - and for that matter, it goes for riddles and the like too - is whether I would ever have thought of it myself. If I go "oh right, I should've seen that coming" or at least "oh right, I *could* have discovered that if I'd thought about it more", it's okay. Whereas if it's something I would never have thought of, I find it lame. If I had grasped it properly as soon as it was revealed, though - that events like e.g. the whole thing with Master Wu or the conversation with Assumption Soames were not completely made up, but were in fact Gonzo's memories - I dare say it wouldn't have annoyed me so much, as that would've been much easier to accept and I wouldn't have had to be in denial about it for the rest of the book.


I think I would have been very upset if I had thought for a minute that Master Wu had been made up.

Dickens actually told Collins, when the latter was writing The Moonstone, I think, that the public doesn't like to be tricked. I always thought Dickens had profoundly misunderstood something. Perhaps he hadn't. I am intrigued.

It's an exercise in futility to determine what the public as a whole likes or doesn't like. :P Some people like being tricked, others don't.

I don't know, I suspect that would have made the book too dark. It needed a thoroughly absurd place for Zaher Bey and their group to be able to exist at all. Horror needs contrast (certainly in this type of book, if it has a type), and fully fledged tragedy would have made the whole middle part unbearable, I think. And I am not just saying that in order to defend the book at any price.

That's a fair point, but the way he did it it feels like a cheap and baseless accusation against the World Bank or IMF that blames them for ruining countries without laying any responsibilities on those countries themselves.


Yes. I liked that :P
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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June Book Club: The Gone-Away World by Nick Harkaway - 07/06/2010 06:09:34 PM 1365 Views
What did you think? Love, hate, etc? *NM* - 07/06/2010 06:10:02 PM 461 Views
For the most part, and closer to the end I really liked it. - 07/06/2010 07:05:38 PM 910 Views
Re: For the most part, and closer to the end I really liked it. - 07/06/2010 07:07:49 PM 875 Views
No surprises here, I suppose. - 07/06/2010 07:05:47 PM 933 Views
I enjoyed his flow. - 08/06/2010 04:55:49 AM 719 Views
Re: I enjoyed his flow. - 15/06/2010 02:30:07 PM 870 Views
I haven't bothered re-reading it yet - 07/06/2010 09:12:58 PM 901 Views
Neither. Good, but not that deep, and with some annoying things. - 07/06/2010 10:29:18 PM 829 Views
Mostly regarding being tricked - 08/06/2010 08:47:56 AM 1030 Views
*lol* Don't give up on your thesis just yet. - 08/06/2010 09:20:16 AM 941 Views
Re: *lol* Don't give up on your thesis just yet. - 08/06/2010 12:54:53 PM 864 Views
Why am I not surprised. *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:07:47 PM 448 Views
Re: Mostly regarding being tricked - 08/06/2010 01:42:31 PM 828 Views
Re: Mostly regarding being tricked - 08/06/2010 01:43:22 PM 933 Views
Love? More like enjoyed it a lot. - 08/06/2010 04:45:24 AM 938 Views
I'm mostly ambivalent. - 08/06/2010 01:52:31 PM 984 Views
Re: I'm mostly ambivalent. - 15/06/2010 03:07:55 PM 853 Views
Is it successful as a satire? - 07/06/2010 06:11:11 PM 754 Views
Yes, as long as we are clear on one thing: that is not all it does. - 07/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 880 Views
I'd say so, yes. - 07/06/2010 11:05:35 PM 774 Views
Partially. - 08/06/2010 01:58:19 PM 900 Views
Characters: - 07/06/2010 06:12:29 PM 951 Views
Ninjas! - 07/06/2010 07:11:02 PM 802 Views
After the introduction in chapter one... - 07/06/2010 07:31:48 PM 934 Views
One of my favourite things about this book. *spoilers* (do we need to mark spoilers here?) - 07/06/2010 07:58:36 PM 1079 Views
No. You don't need to mark spoilers. *NM* - 07/06/2010 08:55:03 PM 464 Views
I disliked everyone except Master Wu. - 08/06/2010 01:59:27 PM 849 Views
Re: Characters: - 09/06/2010 03:03:40 AM 1130 Views
Re: Characters: - 15/06/2010 02:56:01 PM 788 Views
Re: I really disliked how many GROUPS there were. - 09/06/2010 11:59:33 AM 847 Views
Quite. They were all pretty much ciphers. *NM* - 12/06/2010 01:26:13 PM 365 Views
The BIG twist: - 07/06/2010 06:13:38 PM 917 Views
Not such a surprise - 07/06/2010 07:01:24 PM 888 Views
Re: Not such a surprise - 08/06/2010 05:13:02 AM 877 Views
The parents thing confused me too. - 08/06/2010 08:16:29 AM 935 Views
My first reaction was to be a little pissed off - 07/06/2010 07:23:09 PM 790 Views
Apparently I was the only person who did not see it coming *spoilers* - 07/06/2010 08:51:01 PM 939 Views
Don't worry, Tim didn't either. *NM* - 07/06/2010 08:52:43 PM 446 Views
It annoyed me in Fight Club, and it annoyed me here. - 07/06/2010 10:06:17 PM 1008 Views
Yeah, annoyed me too. - 08/06/2010 02:02:43 PM 967 Views
Well... - 08/06/2010 05:10:56 AM 878 Views
Re: Well... - 08/06/2010 08:58:26 AM 949 Views
Re: I guessed it in the second chapter. - 09/06/2010 12:00:49 PM 871 Views
I clearly need to reread Thief of Time. - 13/06/2010 06:07:28 PM 717 Views
Re: Spoiler for Thief of Time : - 14/06/2010 08:27:33 AM 883 Views
Hm. I vaguely remember that stuff. - 14/06/2010 05:52:16 PM 767 Views
Re: Hm. I vaguely remember that stuff. - 15/06/2010 02:47:05 PM 850 Views
Ideas - 07/06/2010 06:15:25 PM 914 Views
Re: Ideas - 07/06/2010 07:29:51 PM 756 Views
Re: Ideas - 08/06/2010 12:41:31 PM 787 Views
Re: Ideas - 08/06/2010 02:09:08 PM 838 Views
Re: I agree with you, and I think it is one of the drawbacks of the novel. - 09/06/2010 12:07:51 PM 803 Views
Re: I agree with you, and I think it is one of the drawbacks of the novel. - 09/06/2010 06:26:20 PM 853 Views
Re: I think you tend to read something and then decide that it is not fit for the genre it is trying - 10/06/2010 09:23:29 AM 680 Views
I think you have misunderstood. - 15/06/2010 02:31:42 PM 865 Views
The New People - 07/06/2010 07:32:46 PM 915 Views
I know how I would have reacted in real life - 08/06/2010 01:20:04 PM 837 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 08/06/2010 02:09:39 PM 360 Views
Re: I would have been one of those awkward hypocrites who tried to be cool with it. - 09/06/2010 12:11:51 PM 811 Views
I kind of wish I would. - 15/06/2010 02:33:25 PM 774 Views
The first chapter - 07/06/2010 09:01:13 PM 967 Views
Liked it. - 07/06/2010 09:21:50 PM 973 Views
I was warned beforehand about the endless flashback. - 07/06/2010 11:16:03 PM 956 Views
Re: I was warned beforehand about the endless flashback. - 08/06/2010 08:37:30 AM 706 Views
My Take. - 08/06/2010 05:27:32 AM 885 Views
Re: My take. - 08/06/2010 08:51:13 AM 774 Views
That's a good point. I think you might be right. - 13/06/2010 06:11:27 PM 642 Views
Favourite scenes - 08/06/2010 01:31:57 PM 860 Views
re: mimes and the Voiceless Dragon (and other scenes) - 09/06/2010 02:39:48 AM 830 Views
Re: re: mimes and the Voiceless Dragon (and other scenes) - 09/06/2010 09:27:06 AM 856 Views
What I liked. - 13/06/2010 06:14:40 PM 795 Views
There were a few of those, yeah. - 13/06/2010 10:46:27 PM 860 Views
Re: There were a few of those, yeah. - 15/06/2010 02:35:50 PM 748 Views
Re: Ninjas vs. Pirates: Your inner geek votes for? - 09/06/2010 12:05:22 PM 905 Views
Pirates. Everytime. - 12/06/2010 01:29:01 PM 825 Views
Re: Pirates. Everytime. - 15/06/2010 02:40:45 PM 794 Views
I don't consider the pirates thing to be a "pattern" - 15/06/2010 02:52:46 PM 793 Views
My inner geek normally goes with ninjas, but not in this book. - 15/06/2010 02:38:26 PM 785 Views
A question I had while reading the book - was this meant to be set in Britain, the US, or some mix? - 13/06/2010 10:53:03 PM 748 Views
Yeah it drove me nuts that I had no clue where it's set *NM* - 14/06/2010 03:34:13 PM 340 Views
It mostly feels like Britain, but with US overtones. - 14/06/2010 05:51:35 PM 782 Views
I had the same confusion - 15/06/2010 02:45:40 PM 956 Views
The other people in the airfield pond - 15/06/2010 03:04:01 PM 1063 Views
Re: The gasmasked person - 17/06/2010 03:47:55 PM 876 Views
See, that was my first thought as well - 17/06/2010 04:11:45 PM 922 Views
They were scary. - 17/06/2010 06:25:59 PM 823 Views
Re: They were scary. - 17/06/2010 09:12:54 PM 877 Views
Ah, well found. - 17/06/2010 09:17:24 PM 757 Views
The use of tense - 17/06/2010 03:55:01 PM 844 Views
This is a tendency I have noticed in a lot of contemporary literature - 17/06/2010 08:54:55 PM 1160 Views
I've noticed it once or twice - 18/06/2010 10:13:18 AM 912 Views
Re: I've noticed it once or twice - 18/06/2010 10:16:58 AM 1198 Views

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