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Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... Camilla Send a noteboard - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM
Slughorn...while he is the kind of person I detest in real life I find Slughorn oddly charming even when he is quite clearly only out for himself. I think he is the one who gives Harry the most information about Lily he's ever had. Well, until book 7, but definitely up to this point. Maybe I like Slughorn because he is clever. He is quick thinking and demonstrates it here in more than one way. Maybe I find it understandable that he would want to lay low, just not noble like most of our heroes in the series are. The musing can continue later I suppose.

He really incarnates the spirit of Slytherin, in a way. Ambitious, manipulative, preferring to pull the strings from the shadows instead of taking risks in the limelight. But unlike nearly everybody else in Slytherin (which is a big mistake on Rowling's part imho, but we'll get to that in due time, end of book seven), he's not on the evil side. He evidently has some remains of prejudice against Muggleborns, but isn't really set against them - kind of like how older people back in the day had this slightly dubious yet not really malevolently racist view of black people.

What's remarkable is that he has been on the run for a year, he says. So he must have expected Voldemort would try to recruit him long before Voldemort gave up his secrecy... interesting.


That is a very good point. So he must have taken on Dumbledore's warnings as soon as he made them.

Dumbledore...I feel a little conflicted about his dealing with Slughorn. We are clearly witnessing Dumbledore at his most manipulative, but I don't know what else he is to have done. He needs Slughorn close for a variety of reasons and the decision is ultimately left to Slughorn...I don't know. I like him a lot better in his broom closet conversation with Harry.

Manipulative isn't necessarily evil. Dumbledore plays dirty, perhaps, but Slughorn is old and wise enough to know he's being played, and takes the bait anyway. The choice is his. So I don't think Dumbledore is to blame here.


Agreed.

I wind up feeling sorry for Fleur. She's trying really hard. I think I feel sorry for her because I see some of myself in her actions. She tries really hard and then she puts her foot in her mouth. Like when she says there is nothing really to do if you don't like cooking. Totally true, and there is no way Mrs Weasley is sharing that responsibility, but still not the right thing to say here.

I don't know about trying really hard. The female Weasleys (which might as well include Hermione) are too hard on her, yes, but it's not as if she's entirely innocent in the matter. Fleur *is* arrogant, but then she has every reason to be, and she has a good heart. I imagine her attitude towards Bill's family isn't meant to be as rude as it ends up coming across, but she probably could have done more effort if she had bothered.

I'm not sure if we're really meant to infer here that Mrs. Weasley, Ginny and Hermione are really wrong with their initial attitude. There will be that reconciliation at the end of the book, but that isn't really presented as them being proven wrong, more as Fleur showing an unexpected side. Which isn't actually unexpected to the readers which remember her from book four. But yes, Harry is the one who has the best and most justified attitude towards her (no wonder, he's the one who knows her best apart from Bill).

Narcissa. I take it back, she is awful. Whatever devotion to her son she expresses she is clearly in line with at least some of Voldemort's aims with her reaction to Hermione. I'm thinking Draco never really stood a chance to be a decent human being.

She's a bigot, yes, certainly. But personally I'm not losing all sympathy for her here. Snape's oath seems to have lessened her worries about Draco greatly, but she still must be fearing for him, while he is clearly still quite confident at this point about it, and trying to escape her protectiveness. Someone as proud as Narcissa is always going to show her worst side in a confrontation like that one, she has a reputation to uphold, and of course Harry does hit her rather hard with the Lucius comments, probably harder than he realizes because he doesn't know about her fears Voldemort might kill or otherwise punish Lucius for his failure.


Good point.

I love our introduction to Fred and George's shop. They really are good businessmen and talented wizards even though we've been led to believe in the early books that they were screw ups.

It's interesting that Molly never brings up the matter of Harry having given them the initial loan, which Ron supposedly told her in a letter during book five. And she seems to have come to terms with it. It is an awesome scene ("Mr. Weasley and Mr. Weasley" is great), but I can't agree we've been led to believe that they were screw ups. Every time we've seen them, or very nearly, they were confident, capable and in control of the situation.


I had forgotten she knew. Are you sure he told her?
And I agree about the twins.

Draco. Every time I read this chapter I'm reminded of how we've been so misled. Harry is right about Draco for the entire book. He gets the specifics wrong sometimes, but he knows this trip is important and doesn't let it go. Harry has been wrong so many times we dismiss it like everyone in the book does but he is so, so very right.

Yeah, Harry is like a broken clock that way. ;)


Yes.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Six, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - 18/10/2010 06:12:40 PM 3051 Views
General comments on the book. - 18/10/2010 06:14:10 PM 1722 Views
I am enjoying this a lot more than I thought I would. - 22/10/2010 07:25:17 PM 1839 Views
Yes, I'm loving that I can read in English again. - 22/10/2010 10:10:32 PM 1949 Views
Me too - 01/11/2010 02:11:28 PM 1701 Views
Suggestions. - 18/10/2010 06:18:46 PM 1764 Views
Re: Suggestions. - 20/10/2010 03:20:18 PM 1911 Views
*cough* - 09/11/2010 09:24:21 AM 1639 Views
Oh yes. I'm being distracted by Towers of Midnight. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:11:22 PM 1040 Views
Shocking. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:43 PM 973 Views
Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 06:48:10 PM 1800 Views
Re: Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 10:05:30 PM 2113 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Other Minister, Spinner's End, Will and Won't. - 18/10/2010 06:21:55 PM 2001 Views
Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:25:12 PM 1992 Views
Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:55:06 PM 1985 Views
(minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 11:27:53 AM 1942 Views
Re: (minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 05:26:50 PM 1735 Views
*spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 01:01:35 AM 1934 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:39:44 AM 1747 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:48:45 AM 2033 Views
I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 07:30:03 PM 1736 Views
Re: I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 08:33:44 PM 1842 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 18/10/2010 06:28:16 PM 894 Views
Dumbledore-centered. - 19/10/2010 01:03:05 AM 1859 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:31:56 PM 1826 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:33:34 PM 1818 Views
Chapters 4-6: Horace Slughorn, An Excess of Phlegm, Draco's Detour. *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:44:39 PM 1041 Views
Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 03:46:47 PM 1903 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 05:27:26 PM 1935 Views
(Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:25:20 PM 1942 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM 1856 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:20:28 PM 1746 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 21/10/2010 12:04:23 AM 1469 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM 1845 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:23:38 PM 1738 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 10:15:58 PM 1868 Views
On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:30:48 PM 1814 Views
Re: On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:58:45 PM 1863 Views
Fleur - 23/10/2010 05:11:08 PM 1689 Views
Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins. - 20/10/2010 09:23:04 PM 1773 Views
Characters. - 25/10/2010 03:10:35 AM 1693 Views
Plotting and writing. - 20/10/2010 03:47:55 PM 1817 Views
*minor spoilers for book 7* - 20/10/2010 09:23:44 PM 1857 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:48:07 PM 885 Views
Dumbledore's Stephen Fry moment... or maybe that's just me. - 22/10/2010 07:35:59 PM 1645 Views
It's not just you - 22/10/2010 08:34:25 PM 1635 Views
Chapters 7-9: Slug Club, Snape Victorious, The Half-Blood Prince *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:03 PM 1030 Views
Characters *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:24 PM 992 Views
Harry, Romilda, Malfoy (in luuuve), Snape, Lavender Brown, McGonagall, Hermione and Slughorn. - 22/10/2010 07:26:19 PM 1897 Views
Thoughts about your thoughts. - 23/10/2010 05:28:10 PM 1648 Views
Re: Thoughts about your thoughts. - 24/10/2010 09:18:37 AM 1677 Views
More characters. - 25/10/2010 03:21:33 AM 1665 Views
Re: More characters. - 25/10/2010 10:27:33 AM 1690 Views
Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 07:54:35 PM 1838 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:04:24 PM 1765 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:54:46 PM 1717 Views
Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.) - 22/10/2010 10:34:49 PM 1852 Views
Neville. - 23/10/2010 05:30:39 PM 1758 Views
Re: Neville. - 08/11/2010 02:35:57 PM 1838 Views
NEWT Potions - 24/10/2010 03:24:42 AM 1831 Views
Re: Characters - 24/10/2010 03:41:30 AM 1894 Views
Re: Characters - 25/10/2010 10:44:00 AM 1713 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:37 PM 979 Views
Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 07:27:23 PM 1777 Views
Malfoy and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 10:51:03 PM 1686 Views
Re: Malfoy and the DADA job. - 25/10/2010 11:31:57 AM 1712 Views
Re: Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 23/10/2010 05:32:27 PM 1704 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:50 PM 996 Views
I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 22/10/2010 07:28:04 PM 1652 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 23/10/2010 05:33:27 PM 1776 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 25/10/2010 03:06:43 AM 1756 Views
Chapters 10-12: The House of Gaunt, Hermione's Helping Hand, Silver and Opals. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:00:02 PM 1037 Views
Characters: The Gaunts, the Trio, Hagrid, and many more. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:02:07 PM 1001 Views
Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right). - 25/10/2010 06:15:23 PM 1931 Views
*lol* - 25/10/2010 06:39:19 PM 1789 Views
I don't hide from my faults. - 25/10/2010 08:01:39 PM 1620 Views
Re: I don't hide from my faults. - 28/10/2010 04:59:54 AM 1807 Views
Re: *lol* - 26/10/2010 09:50:09 AM 1782 Views
~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 03:14:52 PM 1676 Views
Re: ~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 09:49:12 PM 1632 Views
Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 25/10/2010 10:23:55 PM 1717 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 26/10/2010 11:56:59 PM 1812 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 27/10/2010 08:14:42 AM 1819 Views
Plotting and writing. - 25/10/2010 05:03:16 PM 1791 Views
Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 25/10/2010 05:37:28 PM 1828 Views
Re: Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 26/10/2010 09:46:47 AM 1725 Views
The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 12:05:48 AM 1769 Views
Re: The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 08:10:46 AM 1685 Views
Things - 25/10/2010 10:24:19 PM 1803 Views
Re: Things - 27/10/2010 12:01:17 AM 1840 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:03:32 PM 821 Views
Dumbledore still sounds like Stephen Fry. And reflections on the nature of Potions class. - 25/10/2010 05:11:24 PM 1636 Views
It's like baking, I think. - 25/10/2010 05:32:42 PM 1764 Views
Good analogy - 25/10/2010 05:52:38 PM 1619 Views
Yes, exactly like baking - and advanced baking involves experimenting, substituting, improvising. - 25/10/2010 06:42:42 PM 1845 Views
But not at high school. - 25/10/2010 07:57:44 PM 1731 Views
Also - 04/11/2010 09:29:47 AM 1694 Views
Also, Parseltongue - is Harry that thick, or is it a magic thing? - 25/10/2010 05:18:41 PM 1745 Views
I think it's a magic thing. - 25/10/2010 05:34:09 PM 1741 Views
It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7 - 25/10/2010 05:55:28 PM 1700 Views
Huh. I completely missed that. Good thing we're doing a reread. - 25/10/2010 05:57:38 PM 1705 Views
Speaking of Dumbledore and Parseltongue. - 28/10/2010 05:03:10 AM 1984 Views
parseltongue - 25/10/2010 10:24:46 PM 1858 Views
Interesting how many of our remarks are along similar lines. *NM* - 25/10/2010 10:27:30 PM 866 Views
Indeed - 26/10/2010 09:20:43 AM 1745 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Secret Riddle, Felix Felicis, The Unbreakable Vow *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:16:28 PM 994 Views
Characters: The Trio, Ginny, Tom Riddle, Draco,... *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:12 PM 978 Views
Dumbledore, Voldemort, Ron & Hermione, Harry, Ginny, Luna - 27/10/2010 10:31:39 PM 1733 Views
My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around. - 29/10/2010 01:47:20 PM 1701 Views
Girls. - 29/10/2010 05:54:25 PM 1730 Views
Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 02:02:01 PM 1886 Views
Re: Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 09:01:56 PM 1862 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:26 PM 798 Views
plot and writing. - 27/10/2010 10:30:14 PM 1755 Views
Re: plot and writing. - 28/10/2010 05:07:03 AM 1913 Views
Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 02:08:35 PM 1766 Views
Re: Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 09:00:36 PM 1790 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:42 PM 826 Views
Re: Anything else? - 27/10/2010 10:30:55 PM 1898 Views
Re: Anything else? - 28/10/2010 04:56:10 AM 1835 Views
Harry comments on that when in Snape's memories in book five. - 28/10/2010 10:42:08 AM 1695 Views
I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:39:20 AM 1881 Views
Re: I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:44:22 AM 1742 Views
It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 10:55:49 AM 1794 Views
Re: It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 11:48:19 AM 1644 Views
Chapters 16-18: A Very Frosty Christmas, A Sluggish Memory, Birthday Surprises *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:40:39 PM 968 Views
Characters: The Trio, Fleur, Scrimgeour, Percy, Remus, Slughorn,... *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:43:02 PM 1055 Views
Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 08:51:58 PM 1881 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:24:02 PM 1709 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:51:06 PM 1723 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:14:46 PM 1955 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:07:19 PM 1811 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 06:23:04 PM 1767 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 07:20:26 PM 1465 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 04/11/2010 04:03:02 AM 1718 Views
And - 04/11/2010 10:46:37 AM 1718 Views
Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 05:43:49 PM 1650 Views
Re: Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 08:52:34 PM 1802 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:44:04 PM 859 Views
My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:28:43 PM 1739 Views
Re: My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:52:12 PM 1806 Views
Chapters 19-21: Elf Tails, Lord Voldemort's Requests, The Unknowable Room *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:22 PM 755 Views
Characters: The Trio, the elves, Draco, Dumbledore,... *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:56 PM 1081 Views
the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 02:08:32 PM 1620 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:10:11 PM 1859 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:16:30 PM 1945 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:13 PM 860 Views
Dumbledore, little girls and the house-elf issue again. - 01/11/2010 02:09:35 PM 1936 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:27 PM 881 Views
Chapters 22-24: After the Burial, Horcruxes, Sectumsempra - 03/11/2010 09:50:17 PM 2022 Views
Characters. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:33 PM 1005 Views
Malfoy, Ron & Hermione, Slughorn, Voldemort, Snape and Ginny. - 04/11/2010 12:12:57 AM 1769 Views
Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:02:04 PM 1796 Views
Re: Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:16:17 PM 1829 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:50 PM 900 Views
Harry wrong again, house elves, horcruxes, free will, well hidden clues and some irony *DH spoiler* - 03/11/2010 10:35:20 PM 1740 Views
Re: Stuff. - 04/11/2010 04:28:04 AM 1806 Views
Re: Stuff. *spoilers for book 7* - 04/11/2010 09:10:19 AM 1827 Views
This "we'll see in book seven" thing is getting old, but still that's what I have to say here... - 04/11/2010 01:23:01 PM 1646 Views
Yes, I think you are right - 04/11/2010 01:24:41 PM 1804 Views
Well, I'm back. Some comments inside. *DH Spoilers* - 08/11/2010 02:28:11 PM 1780 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:51:04 PM 882 Views
Chapters 25-27: The Seer Overheard, The Cave, The Lightning-Struck Tower - 05/11/2010 05:37:42 PM 1633 Views
Plotting and writing. - 05/11/2010 05:39:27 PM 1482 Views
*spoilers for book 7* - 05/11/2010 07:55:07 PM 1682 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 05/11/2010 05:39:43 PM 902 Views
I like how good magic is not flashy. Also, a Tolkien thing - 05/11/2010 07:55:27 PM 1723 Views
I didn't take the comparison as far, but the gate thing did remind me of Moria, yes. (DH spoilers) - 05/11/2010 10:03:16 PM 1973 Views
yes - 05/11/2010 10:06:43 PM 1708 Views
Chapters 28-30: Flight of the Prince, The Phoenix Lament, The White Tomb. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:12 PM 1012 Views
Characters. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:25 PM 840 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:40 PM 972 Views
Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 02:26:38 PM 1650 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 04:49:06 PM 1718 Views
I'm assuming not even the Ministry knows 100% what she did. - 13/11/2010 12:26:14 AM 1806 Views
Very true. - 15/11/2010 01:48:36 PM 1802 Views
Not much, no, but there's one fairly crucial mention. - 15/11/2010 04:37:23 PM 1766 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 12:22:22 AM 1917 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 09:38:09 AM 2058 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:53 PM 851 Views
We did the Harry Potter marathon thing on Sunday - 09/11/2010 02:28:08 PM 1767 Views
I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:57:56 PM 2007 Views
Re: I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:58:56 PM 1684 Views
This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:34:33 PM 1811 Views
Re: This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:36:29 PM 1787 Views
Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:40:24 PM 2027 Views
Re: Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:43:45 PM 2259 Views
Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:53:46 PM 1791 Views
Re: Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:58:59 PM 1890 Views

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