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Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... Camilla Send a noteboard - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM
Slughorn...while he is the kind of person I detest in real life I find Slughorn oddly charming even when he is quite clearly only out for himself. I think he is the one who gives Harry the most information about Lily he's ever had. Well, until book 7, but definitely up to this point. Maybe I like Slughorn because he is clever. He is quick thinking and demonstrates it here in more than one way. Maybe I find it understandable that he would want to lay low, just not noble like most of our heroes in the series are. The musing can continue later I suppose.

He really incarnates the spirit of Slytherin, in a way. Ambitious, manipulative, preferring to pull the strings from the shadows instead of taking risks in the limelight. But unlike nearly everybody else in Slytherin (which is a big mistake on Rowling's part imho, but we'll get to that in due time, end of book seven), he's not on the evil side. He evidently has some remains of prejudice against Muggleborns, but isn't really set against them - kind of like how older people back in the day had this slightly dubious yet not really malevolently racist view of black people.

What's remarkable is that he has been on the run for a year, he says. So he must have expected Voldemort would try to recruit him long before Voldemort gave up his secrecy... interesting.


That is a very good point. So he must have taken on Dumbledore's warnings as soon as he made them.

Dumbledore...I feel a little conflicted about his dealing with Slughorn. We are clearly witnessing Dumbledore at his most manipulative, but I don't know what else he is to have done. He needs Slughorn close for a variety of reasons and the decision is ultimately left to Slughorn...I don't know. I like him a lot better in his broom closet conversation with Harry.

Manipulative isn't necessarily evil. Dumbledore plays dirty, perhaps, but Slughorn is old and wise enough to know he's being played, and takes the bait anyway. The choice is his. So I don't think Dumbledore is to blame here.


Agreed.

I wind up feeling sorry for Fleur. She's trying really hard. I think I feel sorry for her because I see some of myself in her actions. She tries really hard and then she puts her foot in her mouth. Like when she says there is nothing really to do if you don't like cooking. Totally true, and there is no way Mrs Weasley is sharing that responsibility, but still not the right thing to say here.

I don't know about trying really hard. The female Weasleys (which might as well include Hermione) are too hard on her, yes, but it's not as if she's entirely innocent in the matter. Fleur *is* arrogant, but then she has every reason to be, and she has a good heart. I imagine her attitude towards Bill's family isn't meant to be as rude as it ends up coming across, but she probably could have done more effort if she had bothered.

I'm not sure if we're really meant to infer here that Mrs. Weasley, Ginny and Hermione are really wrong with their initial attitude. There will be that reconciliation at the end of the book, but that isn't really presented as them being proven wrong, more as Fleur showing an unexpected side. Which isn't actually unexpected to the readers which remember her from book four. But yes, Harry is the one who has the best and most justified attitude towards her (no wonder, he's the one who knows her best apart from Bill).

Narcissa. I take it back, she is awful. Whatever devotion to her son she expresses she is clearly in line with at least some of Voldemort's aims with her reaction to Hermione. I'm thinking Draco never really stood a chance to be a decent human being.

She's a bigot, yes, certainly. But personally I'm not losing all sympathy for her here. Snape's oath seems to have lessened her worries about Draco greatly, but she still must be fearing for him, while he is clearly still quite confident at this point about it, and trying to escape her protectiveness. Someone as proud as Narcissa is always going to show her worst side in a confrontation like that one, she has a reputation to uphold, and of course Harry does hit her rather hard with the Lucius comments, probably harder than he realizes because he doesn't know about her fears Voldemort might kill or otherwise punish Lucius for his failure.


Good point.

I love our introduction to Fred and George's shop. They really are good businessmen and talented wizards even though we've been led to believe in the early books that they were screw ups.

It's interesting that Molly never brings up the matter of Harry having given them the initial loan, which Ron supposedly told her in a letter during book five. And she seems to have come to terms with it. It is an awesome scene ("Mr. Weasley and Mr. Weasley" is great), but I can't agree we've been led to believe that they were screw ups. Every time we've seen them, or very nearly, they were confident, capable and in control of the situation.


I had forgotten she knew. Are you sure he told her?
And I agree about the twins.

Draco. Every time I read this chapter I'm reminded of how we've been so misled. Harry is right about Draco for the entire book. He gets the specifics wrong sometimes, but he knows this trip is important and doesn't let it go. Harry has been wrong so many times we dismiss it like everyone in the book does but he is so, so very right.

Yeah, Harry is like a broken clock that way. ;)


Yes.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Six, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - 18/10/2010 06:12:40 PM 3207 Views
General comments on the book. - 18/10/2010 06:14:10 PM 1864 Views
I am enjoying this a lot more than I thought I would. - 22/10/2010 07:25:17 PM 2012 Views
Yes, I'm loving that I can read in English again. - 22/10/2010 10:10:32 PM 2087 Views
Me too - 01/11/2010 02:11:28 PM 1843 Views
Suggestions. - 18/10/2010 06:18:46 PM 1920 Views
Re: Suggestions. - 20/10/2010 03:20:18 PM 2054 Views
*cough* - 09/11/2010 09:24:21 AM 1787 Views
Oh yes. I'm being distracted by Towers of Midnight. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:11:22 PM 1109 Views
Shocking. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:43 PM 1051 Views
Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 06:48:10 PM 1939 Views
Re: Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 10:05:30 PM 2255 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Other Minister, Spinner's End, Will and Won't. - 18/10/2010 06:21:55 PM 2122 Views
Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:25:12 PM 2127 Views
Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:55:06 PM 2148 Views
(minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 11:27:53 AM 2094 Views
Re: (minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 05:26:50 PM 1876 Views
*spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 01:01:35 AM 2100 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:39:44 AM 1922 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:48:45 AM 2179 Views
I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 07:30:03 PM 1875 Views
Re: I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 08:33:44 PM 2005 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 18/10/2010 06:28:16 PM 974 Views
Dumbledore-centered. - 19/10/2010 01:03:05 AM 2009 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:31:56 PM 1975 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:33:34 PM 1954 Views
Chapters 4-6: Horace Slughorn, An Excess of Phlegm, Draco's Detour. *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:44:39 PM 1111 Views
Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 03:46:47 PM 2054 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 05:27:26 PM 2050 Views
(Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:25:20 PM 2121 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM 2005 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:20:28 PM 1889 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 21/10/2010 12:04:23 AM 1644 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM 2014 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:23:38 PM 1886 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 10:15:58 PM 2033 Views
On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:30:48 PM 1969 Views
Re: On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:58:45 PM 1983 Views
Fleur - 23/10/2010 05:11:08 PM 1833 Views
Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins. - 20/10/2010 09:23:04 PM 1909 Views
Characters. - 25/10/2010 03:10:35 AM 1830 Views
Plotting and writing. - 20/10/2010 03:47:55 PM 1935 Views
*minor spoilers for book 7* - 20/10/2010 09:23:44 PM 1982 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:48:07 PM 966 Views
Dumbledore's Stephen Fry moment... or maybe that's just me. - 22/10/2010 07:35:59 PM 1785 Views
It's not just you - 22/10/2010 08:34:25 PM 1780 Views
Chapters 7-9: Slug Club, Snape Victorious, The Half-Blood Prince *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:03 PM 1124 Views
Characters *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:24 PM 1061 Views
Harry, Romilda, Malfoy (in luuuve), Snape, Lavender Brown, McGonagall, Hermione and Slughorn. - 22/10/2010 07:26:19 PM 2038 Views
Thoughts about your thoughts. - 23/10/2010 05:28:10 PM 1815 Views
Re: Thoughts about your thoughts. - 24/10/2010 09:18:37 AM 1812 Views
More characters. - 25/10/2010 03:21:33 AM 1825 Views
Re: More characters. - 25/10/2010 10:27:33 AM 1846 Views
Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 07:54:35 PM 1985 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:04:24 PM 1922 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:54:46 PM 1845 Views
Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.) - 22/10/2010 10:34:49 PM 2000 Views
Neville. - 23/10/2010 05:30:39 PM 1915 Views
Re: Neville. - 08/11/2010 02:35:57 PM 1995 Views
NEWT Potions - 24/10/2010 03:24:42 AM 1987 Views
Re: Characters - 24/10/2010 03:41:30 AM 2031 Views
Re: Characters - 25/10/2010 10:44:00 AM 1866 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:37 PM 1056 Views
Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 07:27:23 PM 1944 Views
Malfoy and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 10:51:03 PM 1852 Views
Re: Malfoy and the DADA job. - 25/10/2010 11:31:57 AM 1888 Views
Re: Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 23/10/2010 05:32:27 PM 1830 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:50 PM 1071 Views
I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 22/10/2010 07:28:04 PM 1803 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 23/10/2010 05:33:27 PM 1923 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 25/10/2010 03:06:43 AM 1882 Views
Chapters 10-12: The House of Gaunt, Hermione's Helping Hand, Silver and Opals. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:00:02 PM 1125 Views
Characters: The Gaunts, the Trio, Hagrid, and many more. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:02:07 PM 1076 Views
Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right). - 25/10/2010 06:15:23 PM 2099 Views
*lol* - 25/10/2010 06:39:19 PM 1922 Views
I don't hide from my faults. - 25/10/2010 08:01:39 PM 1765 Views
Re: I don't hide from my faults. - 28/10/2010 04:59:54 AM 1932 Views
Re: *lol* - 26/10/2010 09:50:09 AM 1906 Views
~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 03:14:52 PM 1824 Views
Re: ~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 09:49:12 PM 1778 Views
Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 25/10/2010 10:23:55 PM 1840 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 26/10/2010 11:56:59 PM 1974 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 27/10/2010 08:14:42 AM 1954 Views
Plotting and writing. - 25/10/2010 05:03:16 PM 1933 Views
Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 25/10/2010 05:37:28 PM 1966 Views
Re: Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 26/10/2010 09:46:47 AM 1853 Views
The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 12:05:48 AM 1912 Views
Re: The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 08:10:46 AM 1841 Views
Things - 25/10/2010 10:24:19 PM 1995 Views
Re: Things - 27/10/2010 12:01:17 AM 1987 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:03:32 PM 886 Views
Dumbledore still sounds like Stephen Fry. And reflections on the nature of Potions class. - 25/10/2010 05:11:24 PM 1807 Views
It's like baking, I think. - 25/10/2010 05:32:42 PM 1895 Views
Good analogy - 25/10/2010 05:52:38 PM 1769 Views
Yes, exactly like baking - and advanced baking involves experimenting, substituting, improvising. - 25/10/2010 06:42:42 PM 1999 Views
But not at high school. - 25/10/2010 07:57:44 PM 1883 Views
Also - 04/11/2010 09:29:47 AM 1857 Views
Also, Parseltongue - is Harry that thick, or is it a magic thing? - 25/10/2010 05:18:41 PM 1877 Views
I think it's a magic thing. - 25/10/2010 05:34:09 PM 1868 Views
It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7 - 25/10/2010 05:55:28 PM 1865 Views
Huh. I completely missed that. Good thing we're doing a reread. - 25/10/2010 05:57:38 PM 1881 Views
Speaking of Dumbledore and Parseltongue. - 28/10/2010 05:03:10 AM 2130 Views
parseltongue - 25/10/2010 10:24:46 PM 2004 Views
Interesting how many of our remarks are along similar lines. *NM* - 25/10/2010 10:27:30 PM 942 Views
Indeed - 26/10/2010 09:20:43 AM 1883 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Secret Riddle, Felix Felicis, The Unbreakable Vow *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:16:28 PM 1062 Views
Characters: The Trio, Ginny, Tom Riddle, Draco,... *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:12 PM 1050 Views
Dumbledore, Voldemort, Ron & Hermione, Harry, Ginny, Luna - 27/10/2010 10:31:39 PM 1918 Views
My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around. - 29/10/2010 01:47:20 PM 1835 Views
Girls. - 29/10/2010 05:54:25 PM 1898 Views
Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 02:02:01 PM 2027 Views
Re: Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 09:01:56 PM 2017 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:26 PM 851 Views
plot and writing. - 27/10/2010 10:30:14 PM 1911 Views
Re: plot and writing. - 28/10/2010 05:07:03 AM 2040 Views
Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 02:08:35 PM 1913 Views
Re: Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 09:00:36 PM 1932 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:42 PM 909 Views
Re: Anything else? - 27/10/2010 10:30:55 PM 2044 Views
Re: Anything else? - 28/10/2010 04:56:10 AM 1967 Views
Harry comments on that when in Snape's memories in book five. - 28/10/2010 10:42:08 AM 1829 Views
I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:39:20 AM 2073 Views
Re: I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:44:22 AM 1900 Views
It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 10:55:49 AM 1955 Views
Re: It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 11:48:19 AM 1783 Views
Chapters 16-18: A Very Frosty Christmas, A Sluggish Memory, Birthday Surprises *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:40:39 PM 1062 Views
Characters: The Trio, Fleur, Scrimgeour, Percy, Remus, Slughorn,... *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:43:02 PM 1127 Views
Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 08:51:58 PM 2043 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:24:02 PM 1859 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:51:06 PM 1873 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:14:46 PM 2095 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:07:19 PM 1978 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 06:23:04 PM 1923 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 07:20:26 PM 1598 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 04/11/2010 04:03:02 AM 1861 Views
And - 04/11/2010 10:46:37 AM 1892 Views
Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 05:43:49 PM 1829 Views
Re: Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 08:52:34 PM 1953 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:44:04 PM 938 Views
My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:28:43 PM 1879 Views
Re: My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:52:12 PM 1938 Views
Chapters 19-21: Elf Tails, Lord Voldemort's Requests, The Unknowable Room *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:22 PM 831 Views
Characters: The Trio, the elves, Draco, Dumbledore,... *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:56 PM 1179 Views
the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 02:08:32 PM 1760 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:10:11 PM 1999 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:16:30 PM 2079 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:13 PM 936 Views
Dumbledore, little girls and the house-elf issue again. - 01/11/2010 02:09:35 PM 2110 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:27 PM 947 Views
Chapters 22-24: After the Burial, Horcruxes, Sectumsempra - 03/11/2010 09:50:17 PM 2153 Views
Characters. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:33 PM 1088 Views
Malfoy, Ron & Hermione, Slughorn, Voldemort, Snape and Ginny. - 04/11/2010 12:12:57 AM 1930 Views
Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:02:04 PM 1964 Views
Re: Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:16:17 PM 1990 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:50 PM 962 Views
Harry wrong again, house elves, horcruxes, free will, well hidden clues and some irony *DH spoiler* - 03/11/2010 10:35:20 PM 1893 Views
Re: Stuff. - 04/11/2010 04:28:04 AM 1932 Views
Re: Stuff. *spoilers for book 7* - 04/11/2010 09:10:19 AM 1991 Views
This "we'll see in book seven" thing is getting old, but still that's what I have to say here... - 04/11/2010 01:23:01 PM 1780 Views
Yes, I think you are right - 04/11/2010 01:24:41 PM 1949 Views
Well, I'm back. Some comments inside. *DH Spoilers* - 08/11/2010 02:28:11 PM 1959 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:51:04 PM 957 Views
Chapters 25-27: The Seer Overheard, The Cave, The Lightning-Struck Tower - 05/11/2010 05:37:42 PM 1774 Views
Plotting and writing. - 05/11/2010 05:39:27 PM 1615 Views
*spoilers for book 7* - 05/11/2010 07:55:07 PM 1821 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 05/11/2010 05:39:43 PM 969 Views
I like how good magic is not flashy. Also, a Tolkien thing - 05/11/2010 07:55:27 PM 1876 Views
I didn't take the comparison as far, but the gate thing did remind me of Moria, yes. (DH spoilers) - 05/11/2010 10:03:16 PM 2122 Views
yes - 05/11/2010 10:06:43 PM 1842 Views
Chapters 28-30: Flight of the Prince, The Phoenix Lament, The White Tomb. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:12 PM 1086 Views
Characters. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:25 PM 907 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:40 PM 1035 Views
Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 02:26:38 PM 1795 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 04:49:06 PM 1862 Views
I'm assuming not even the Ministry knows 100% what she did. - 13/11/2010 12:26:14 AM 1966 Views
Very true. - 15/11/2010 01:48:36 PM 1950 Views
Not much, no, but there's one fairly crucial mention. - 15/11/2010 04:37:23 PM 1909 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 12:22:22 AM 2076 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 09:38:09 AM 2213 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:53 PM 939 Views
We did the Harry Potter marathon thing on Sunday - 09/11/2010 02:28:08 PM 1930 Views
I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:57:56 PM 2155 Views
Re: I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:58:56 PM 1823 Views
This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:34:33 PM 1970 Views
Re: This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:36:29 PM 1919 Views
Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:40:24 PM 2151 Views
Re: Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:43:45 PM 2413 Views
Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:53:46 PM 1943 Views
Re: Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:58:59 PM 2041 Views

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