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Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... Camilla Send a noteboard - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM
Slughorn...while he is the kind of person I detest in real life I find Slughorn oddly charming even when he is quite clearly only out for himself. I think he is the one who gives Harry the most information about Lily he's ever had. Well, until book 7, but definitely up to this point. Maybe I like Slughorn because he is clever. He is quick thinking and demonstrates it here in more than one way. Maybe I find it understandable that he would want to lay low, just not noble like most of our heroes in the series are. The musing can continue later I suppose.

He really incarnates the spirit of Slytherin, in a way. Ambitious, manipulative, preferring to pull the strings from the shadows instead of taking risks in the limelight. But unlike nearly everybody else in Slytherin (which is a big mistake on Rowling's part imho, but we'll get to that in due time, end of book seven), he's not on the evil side. He evidently has some remains of prejudice against Muggleborns, but isn't really set against them - kind of like how older people back in the day had this slightly dubious yet not really malevolently racist view of black people.

What's remarkable is that he has been on the run for a year, he says. So he must have expected Voldemort would try to recruit him long before Voldemort gave up his secrecy... interesting.


That is a very good point. So he must have taken on Dumbledore's warnings as soon as he made them.

Dumbledore...I feel a little conflicted about his dealing with Slughorn. We are clearly witnessing Dumbledore at his most manipulative, but I don't know what else he is to have done. He needs Slughorn close for a variety of reasons and the decision is ultimately left to Slughorn...I don't know. I like him a lot better in his broom closet conversation with Harry.

Manipulative isn't necessarily evil. Dumbledore plays dirty, perhaps, but Slughorn is old and wise enough to know he's being played, and takes the bait anyway. The choice is his. So I don't think Dumbledore is to blame here.


Agreed.

I wind up feeling sorry for Fleur. She's trying really hard. I think I feel sorry for her because I see some of myself in her actions. She tries really hard and then she puts her foot in her mouth. Like when she says there is nothing really to do if you don't like cooking. Totally true, and there is no way Mrs Weasley is sharing that responsibility, but still not the right thing to say here.

I don't know about trying really hard. The female Weasleys (which might as well include Hermione) are too hard on her, yes, but it's not as if she's entirely innocent in the matter. Fleur *is* arrogant, but then she has every reason to be, and she has a good heart. I imagine her attitude towards Bill's family isn't meant to be as rude as it ends up coming across, but she probably could have done more effort if she had bothered.

I'm not sure if we're really meant to infer here that Mrs. Weasley, Ginny and Hermione are really wrong with their initial attitude. There will be that reconciliation at the end of the book, but that isn't really presented as them being proven wrong, more as Fleur showing an unexpected side. Which isn't actually unexpected to the readers which remember her from book four. But yes, Harry is the one who has the best and most justified attitude towards her (no wonder, he's the one who knows her best apart from Bill).

Narcissa. I take it back, she is awful. Whatever devotion to her son she expresses she is clearly in line with at least some of Voldemort's aims with her reaction to Hermione. I'm thinking Draco never really stood a chance to be a decent human being.

She's a bigot, yes, certainly. But personally I'm not losing all sympathy for her here. Snape's oath seems to have lessened her worries about Draco greatly, but she still must be fearing for him, while he is clearly still quite confident at this point about it, and trying to escape her protectiveness. Someone as proud as Narcissa is always going to show her worst side in a confrontation like that one, she has a reputation to uphold, and of course Harry does hit her rather hard with the Lucius comments, probably harder than he realizes because he doesn't know about her fears Voldemort might kill or otherwise punish Lucius for his failure.


Good point.

I love our introduction to Fred and George's shop. They really are good businessmen and talented wizards even though we've been led to believe in the early books that they were screw ups.

It's interesting that Molly never brings up the matter of Harry having given them the initial loan, which Ron supposedly told her in a letter during book five. And she seems to have come to terms with it. It is an awesome scene ("Mr. Weasley and Mr. Weasley" is great), but I can't agree we've been led to believe that they were screw ups. Every time we've seen them, or very nearly, they were confident, capable and in control of the situation.


I had forgotten she knew. Are you sure he told her?
And I agree about the twins.

Draco. Every time I read this chapter I'm reminded of how we've been so misled. Harry is right about Draco for the entire book. He gets the specifics wrong sometimes, but he knows this trip is important and doesn't let it go. Harry has been wrong so many times we dismiss it like everyone in the book does but he is so, so very right.

Yeah, Harry is like a broken clock that way. ;)


Yes.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Six, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - 18/10/2010 06:12:40 PM 3327 Views
General comments on the book. - 18/10/2010 06:14:10 PM 1955 Views
I am enjoying this a lot more than I thought I would. - 22/10/2010 07:25:17 PM 2096 Views
Yes, I'm loving that I can read in English again. - 22/10/2010 10:10:32 PM 2182 Views
Me too - 01/11/2010 02:11:28 PM 1939 Views
Suggestions. - 18/10/2010 06:18:46 PM 2006 Views
Re: Suggestions. - 20/10/2010 03:20:18 PM 2136 Views
*cough* - 09/11/2010 09:24:21 AM 1868 Views
Oh yes. I'm being distracted by Towers of Midnight. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:11:22 PM 1151 Views
Shocking. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:43 PM 1100 Views
Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 06:48:10 PM 2025 Views
Re: Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 10:05:30 PM 2388 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Other Minister, Spinner's End, Will and Won't. - 18/10/2010 06:21:55 PM 2213 Views
Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:25:12 PM 2225 Views
Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:55:06 PM 2241 Views
(minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 11:27:53 AM 2204 Views
Re: (minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 05:26:50 PM 1974 Views
*spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 01:01:35 AM 2210 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:39:44 AM 2027 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:48:45 AM 2274 Views
I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 07:30:03 PM 1958 Views
Re: I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 08:33:44 PM 2102 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 18/10/2010 06:28:16 PM 1025 Views
Dumbledore-centered. - 19/10/2010 01:03:05 AM 2112 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:31:56 PM 2059 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:33:34 PM 2035 Views
Chapters 4-6: Horace Slughorn, An Excess of Phlegm, Draco's Detour. *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:44:39 PM 1163 Views
Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 03:46:47 PM 2138 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 05:27:26 PM 2160 Views
(Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:25:20 PM 2221 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM 2110 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:20:28 PM 1973 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 21/10/2010 12:04:23 AM 1737 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM 2112 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:23:38 PM 1996 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 10:15:58 PM 2120 Views
On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:30:48 PM 2073 Views
Re: On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:58:45 PM 2071 Views
Fleur - 23/10/2010 05:11:08 PM 1941 Views
Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins. - 20/10/2010 09:23:04 PM 2009 Views
Characters. - 25/10/2010 03:10:35 AM 1919 Views
Plotting and writing. - 20/10/2010 03:47:55 PM 2023 Views
*minor spoilers for book 7* - 20/10/2010 09:23:44 PM 2080 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:48:07 PM 1024 Views
Dumbledore's Stephen Fry moment... or maybe that's just me. - 22/10/2010 07:35:59 PM 1874 Views
It's not just you - 22/10/2010 08:34:25 PM 1867 Views
Chapters 7-9: Slug Club, Snape Victorious, The Half-Blood Prince *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:03 PM 1194 Views
Characters *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:24 PM 1120 Views
Harry, Romilda, Malfoy (in luuuve), Snape, Lavender Brown, McGonagall, Hermione and Slughorn. - 22/10/2010 07:26:19 PM 2135 Views
Thoughts about your thoughts. - 23/10/2010 05:28:10 PM 1910 Views
Re: Thoughts about your thoughts. - 24/10/2010 09:18:37 AM 1898 Views
More characters. - 25/10/2010 03:21:33 AM 1916 Views
Re: More characters. - 25/10/2010 10:27:33 AM 1944 Views
Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 07:54:35 PM 2089 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:04:24 PM 2004 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:54:46 PM 1950 Views
Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.) - 22/10/2010 10:34:49 PM 2101 Views
Neville. - 23/10/2010 05:30:39 PM 1999 Views
Re: Neville. - 08/11/2010 02:35:57 PM 2075 Views
NEWT Potions - 24/10/2010 03:24:42 AM 2073 Views
Re: Characters - 24/10/2010 03:41:30 AM 2130 Views
Re: Characters - 25/10/2010 10:44:00 AM 1966 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:37 PM 1109 Views
Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 07:27:23 PM 2037 Views
Malfoy and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 10:51:03 PM 1977 Views
Re: Malfoy and the DADA job. - 25/10/2010 11:31:57 AM 1992 Views
Re: Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 23/10/2010 05:32:27 PM 1925 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:50 PM 1138 Views
I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 22/10/2010 07:28:04 PM 1890 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 23/10/2010 05:33:27 PM 2018 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 25/10/2010 03:06:43 AM 1973 Views
Chapters 10-12: The House of Gaunt, Hermione's Helping Hand, Silver and Opals. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:00:02 PM 1179 Views
Characters: The Gaunts, the Trio, Hagrid, and many more. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:02:07 PM 1132 Views
Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right). - 25/10/2010 06:15:23 PM 2201 Views
*lol* - 25/10/2010 06:39:19 PM 2008 Views
I don't hide from my faults. - 25/10/2010 08:01:39 PM 1850 Views
Re: I don't hide from my faults. - 28/10/2010 04:59:54 AM 2033 Views
Re: *lol* - 26/10/2010 09:50:09 AM 2006 Views
~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 03:14:52 PM 1907 Views
Re: ~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 09:49:12 PM 1876 Views
Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 25/10/2010 10:23:55 PM 1927 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 26/10/2010 11:56:59 PM 2066 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 27/10/2010 08:14:42 AM 2046 Views
Plotting and writing. - 25/10/2010 05:03:16 PM 2028 Views
Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 25/10/2010 05:37:28 PM 2069 Views
Re: Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 26/10/2010 09:46:47 AM 1946 Views
The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 12:05:48 AM 2008 Views
Re: The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 08:10:46 AM 1931 Views
Things - 25/10/2010 10:24:19 PM 2077 Views
Re: Things - 27/10/2010 12:01:17 AM 2104 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:03:32 PM 937 Views
Dumbledore still sounds like Stephen Fry. And reflections on the nature of Potions class. - 25/10/2010 05:11:24 PM 1908 Views
It's like baking, I think. - 25/10/2010 05:32:42 PM 1997 Views
Good analogy - 25/10/2010 05:52:38 PM 1865 Views
Yes, exactly like baking - and advanced baking involves experimenting, substituting, improvising. - 25/10/2010 06:42:42 PM 2098 Views
But not at high school. - 25/10/2010 07:57:44 PM 1975 Views
Also - 04/11/2010 09:29:47 AM 1959 Views
Also, Parseltongue - is Harry that thick, or is it a magic thing? - 25/10/2010 05:18:41 PM 1973 Views
I think it's a magic thing. - 25/10/2010 05:34:09 PM 1977 Views
It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7 - 25/10/2010 05:55:28 PM 1962 Views
Huh. I completely missed that. Good thing we're doing a reread. - 25/10/2010 05:57:38 PM 1968 Views
Speaking of Dumbledore and Parseltongue. - 28/10/2010 05:03:10 AM 2248 Views
parseltongue - 25/10/2010 10:24:46 PM 2087 Views
Interesting how many of our remarks are along similar lines. *NM* - 25/10/2010 10:27:30 PM 989 Views
Indeed - 26/10/2010 09:20:43 AM 1981 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Secret Riddle, Felix Felicis, The Unbreakable Vow *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:16:28 PM 1117 Views
Characters: The Trio, Ginny, Tom Riddle, Draco,... *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:12 PM 1123 Views
Dumbledore, Voldemort, Ron & Hermione, Harry, Ginny, Luna - 27/10/2010 10:31:39 PM 2014 Views
My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around. - 29/10/2010 01:47:20 PM 1945 Views
Girls. - 29/10/2010 05:54:25 PM 1990 Views
Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 02:02:01 PM 2109 Views
Re: Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 09:01:56 PM 2101 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:26 PM 897 Views
plot and writing. - 27/10/2010 10:30:14 PM 2002 Views
Re: plot and writing. - 28/10/2010 05:07:03 AM 2144 Views
Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 02:08:35 PM 2014 Views
Re: Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 09:00:36 PM 2025 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:42 PM 957 Views
Re: Anything else? - 27/10/2010 10:30:55 PM 2132 Views
Re: Anything else? - 28/10/2010 04:56:10 AM 2051 Views
Harry comments on that when in Snape's memories in book five. - 28/10/2010 10:42:08 AM 1944 Views
I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:39:20 AM 2156 Views
Re: I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:44:22 AM 1985 Views
It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 10:55:49 AM 2072 Views
Re: It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 11:48:19 AM 1867 Views
Chapters 16-18: A Very Frosty Christmas, A Sluggish Memory, Birthday Surprises *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:40:39 PM 1111 Views
Characters: The Trio, Fleur, Scrimgeour, Percy, Remus, Slughorn,... *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:43:02 PM 1182 Views
Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 08:51:58 PM 2129 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:24:02 PM 1953 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:51:06 PM 1968 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:14:46 PM 2194 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:07:19 PM 2095 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 06:23:04 PM 2038 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 07:20:26 PM 1689 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 04/11/2010 04:03:02 AM 1950 Views
And - 04/11/2010 10:46:37 AM 1978 Views
Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 05:43:49 PM 1925 Views
Re: Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 08:52:34 PM 2054 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:44:04 PM 998 Views
My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:28:43 PM 1966 Views
Re: My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:52:12 PM 2037 Views
Chapters 19-21: Elf Tails, Lord Voldemort's Requests, The Unknowable Room *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:22 PM 875 Views
Characters: The Trio, the elves, Draco, Dumbledore,... *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:56 PM 1229 Views
the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 02:08:32 PM 1855 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:10:11 PM 2101 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:16:30 PM 2181 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:13 PM 986 Views
Dumbledore, little girls and the house-elf issue again. - 01/11/2010 02:09:35 PM 2201 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:27 PM 1008 Views
Chapters 22-24: After the Burial, Horcruxes, Sectumsempra - 03/11/2010 09:50:17 PM 2237 Views
Characters. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:33 PM 1135 Views
Malfoy, Ron & Hermione, Slughorn, Voldemort, Snape and Ginny. - 04/11/2010 12:12:57 AM 2048 Views
Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:02:04 PM 2076 Views
Re: Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:16:17 PM 2076 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:50 PM 1008 Views
Harry wrong again, house elves, horcruxes, free will, well hidden clues and some irony *DH spoiler* - 03/11/2010 10:35:20 PM 1987 Views
Re: Stuff. - 04/11/2010 04:28:04 AM 2024 Views
Re: Stuff. *spoilers for book 7* - 04/11/2010 09:10:19 AM 2089 Views
This "we'll see in book seven" thing is getting old, but still that's what I have to say here... - 04/11/2010 01:23:01 PM 1866 Views
Yes, I think you are right - 04/11/2010 01:24:41 PM 2028 Views
Well, I'm back. Some comments inside. *DH Spoilers* - 08/11/2010 02:28:11 PM 2058 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:51:04 PM 1017 Views
Chapters 25-27: The Seer Overheard, The Cave, The Lightning-Struck Tower - 05/11/2010 05:37:42 PM 1875 Views
Plotting and writing. - 05/11/2010 05:39:27 PM 1718 Views
*spoilers for book 7* - 05/11/2010 07:55:07 PM 1926 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 05/11/2010 05:39:43 PM 1015 Views
I like how good magic is not flashy. Also, a Tolkien thing - 05/11/2010 07:55:27 PM 1959 Views
I didn't take the comparison as far, but the gate thing did remind me of Moria, yes. (DH spoilers) - 05/11/2010 10:03:16 PM 2213 Views
yes - 05/11/2010 10:06:43 PM 1932 Views
Chapters 28-30: Flight of the Prince, The Phoenix Lament, The White Tomb. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:12 PM 1140 Views
Characters. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:25 PM 962 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:40 PM 1084 Views
Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 02:26:38 PM 1907 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 04:49:06 PM 1952 Views
I'm assuming not even the Ministry knows 100% what she did. - 13/11/2010 12:26:14 AM 2054 Views
Very true. - 15/11/2010 01:48:36 PM 2035 Views
Not much, no, but there's one fairly crucial mention. - 15/11/2010 04:37:23 PM 2001 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 12:22:22 AM 2163 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 09:38:09 AM 2301 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:53 PM 990 Views
We did the Harry Potter marathon thing on Sunday - 09/11/2010 02:28:08 PM 2023 Views
I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:57:56 PM 2240 Views
Re: I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:58:56 PM 1904 Views
This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:34:33 PM 2055 Views
Re: This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:36:29 PM 2009 Views
Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:40:24 PM 2245 Views
Re: Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:43:45 PM 2495 Views
Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:53:46 PM 2037 Views
Re: Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:58:59 PM 2125 Views

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