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3 years of formal Mandarin tell me otherwise. Tom Send a noteboard - 05/12/2011 06:19:34 PM
Unlike Tibetan, where the ga-kha-ka sequence can also be rendered ka-kha-ka in some grammars (though really, it's more like ga-ka-ka, where the third variant can end up voiced if certain superscript, subscript or prefix consonants are attached), the Mandarin distinction is very clear, to the point that no one even understands why the Wade-Giles system tried to use the p-p' distinction for b-p, etc.

Given that Cicero noted how Ennius called Pyrrhus "Burrus", and how κομμι > gummi, κραββατος > grabbatus, αποθηκη > Vulg. botteca, πυξος > buxus, and κυβερνω > guberno, as well as the old Latin "Antioco" and "Corinto" for Antioch and Corinth (see Vox Latina at 12 and 26), it may be that languages lacking the distinction just don't hear it that way. Since all of our voiceless stops are aspirated as well, we can't distinguish between t and th when both are voiceless stops, one aspirated and the other not.

However, with Mandarin I'm very, very comfortable saying that the Chinese themselves don't see things like that. With Tibetan it's probably a situation where I'm just not hearing it "right" (like when I try to explain to my mother palatization of consonants in Russian - she can't hear the difference in the "L" no matter how hard she tries).
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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You should listen to the recording and tell me what you think of the accent. - 02/12/2011 07:28:57 PM 603 Views
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Icelanders would also have no problem. *NM* - 04/12/2011 11:44:14 PM 268 Views
Interesting. It is a rare distinction in the modern world, it seems. *NM* - 05/12/2011 01:48:35 AM 265 Views
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"All over Asia" is a bit of a stretch. - 05/12/2011 01:23:16 PM 549 Views
All the sources I can find say that Mandarin has it. - 05/12/2011 02:57:27 PM 790 Views
3 years of formal Mandarin tell me otherwise. - 05/12/2011 06:19:34 PM 604 Views

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