Most people these days who agree with "moral" reasons for the decay of empires aren't also anti-Christian.
I even wrote my undergraduate honors thesis refuting his conclusion about a "Fall". Socially and economically one can trace a gradual shift in power and influence from the secular aristocracy to the religious aristocracy in the Imperial urban centers in the west and the east - Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople. Transformation is a better word choice than Fall in the Western half anyway. At least till the 6th century when Justinian's reconquest destroyed Italy. It wasn't the Germans who led to the "Fall". It was the Greek speaking Romans of the East. And alas their demographic decline began with a serious plague in the 6th century that then allowd for the Arab conquests of the 7th century.
There are currently many avenues where one can dispute Gibbon. And the idea that Christianity somehow led to the downfall of "Rome" is currently a crazy idea.
Dare I ask about the book club's next selection and timing?
- 09/02/2010 02:49:56 AM
1547 Views
- 09/02/2010 02:49:56 AM
1547 Views
You dare too much!
- 09/02/2010 02:51:48 AM
1291 Views
- 09/02/2010 02:51:48 AM
1291 Views
Based on the length of the last one, why not The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire?
- 09/02/2010 01:29:13 PM
1185 Views
At least that one would have a bit more depth to it
- 09/02/2010 01:46:29 PM
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Does anyone agree with Gibbon's conclusions?
- 09/02/2010 06:45:09 PM
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Currently, no. Not really.
- 09/02/2010 06:57:14 PM
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I would have thought you would have enjoyed his ironic sendup of Christianity, though.
- 10/02/2010 01:58:12 PM
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I was wondering myself.
- 09/02/2010 03:10:55 AM
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You know, I thought about doing that a long time ago
- 09/02/2010 01:30:40 PM
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Oh, go ahead and do it.
- 09/02/2010 06:51:35 PM
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That would be outstanding. *NM*
- 09/02/2010 07:06:14 PM
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I'd be on board with it. I think Tom would be too. Sounds like you too.
- 09/02/2010 07:22:22 PM
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I don't think I'd manage to read all of them, but certainly some. *NM*
- 09/02/2010 07:55:44 PM
573 Views
I might be in on at least 2, 4/5, 6,, 7 and 11. Possibly 10, although I haven't read it in a while
- 09/02/2010 08:08:58 PM
1112 Views
No love for Turgenev? Bazarov is one of the greatest characters in 19th century literature.
- 09/02/2010 08:22:57 PM
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Turgenev's Bazarov is the first person to say "God is dead" in print. *NM*
- 09/02/2010 09:29:19 PM
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And to this day those words are still shocking to read when I imagine
- 09/02/2010 11:09:57 PM
1150 Views
Well, seeing the expressed interest...
- 09/02/2010 09:28:41 PM
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Re: Well, seeing the expressed interest...
- 10/02/2010 12:26:06 AM
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So how about keeping Zamyatin and replacing Lukyanenko with Pelevin?
- 10/02/2010 02:45:33 AM
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Sounds good.
- 10/02/2010 01:36:13 PM
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It's called "Buddha's Little Finger" in English for some reason. See the amazon review as well. *NM*
- 10/02/2010 01:51:02 PM
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Sounds interesting. I'd be interested in reading it. *NM*
- 10/02/2010 05:44:20 PM
572 Views
Do we have a final list, then?
- 10/02/2010 05:53:46 PM
1227 Views
Well.
- 10/02/2010 06:36:00 PM
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I will totally join in with the Master and Margarita discussion. Whichever book club it's in. *NM*
- 10/02/2010 06:49:03 PM
591 Views
We're probably not choosing Master and Margarita for our first selection.
- 10/02/2010 08:16:36 PM
1378 Views
In regards to order, a slightly different proprosal.
- 10/02/2010 09:41:38 PM
1147 Views
At least I have an idea now of what books to watch for when I am out.
- 10/02/2010 11:04:26 PM
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Hmm
- 10/02/2010 12:20:52 PM
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The first book is one that I discussed at wotmania - Москва-Петушки
- 10/02/2010 01:46:57 PM
1345 Views
I might be able to squeeze that in with my other readings
- 10/02/2010 12:53:02 AM
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Have you read Pelevin?
- 10/02/2010 03:16:22 AM
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No
- 10/02/2010 04:44:18 AM
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Strange - several of his books have been published in English and made a splash.
- 10/02/2010 01:50:34 PM
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I think you should go for it. Haven't we only been doing the book club every other month anyway?
- 09/02/2010 09:44:46 PM
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I wouldn't want to exclude Russian literature from the main book club, though.
- 09/02/2010 10:11:08 PM
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I don't think that it would have to exclude Russian literature from the regular book club.
- 09/02/2010 10:39:41 PM
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I suppose that I could just go ahead regardless.
- 10/02/2010 03:18:01 AM
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Ehem. This could be a joint collaboration between us. *NM*
- 10/02/2010 01:37:36 PM
543 Views
That was certainly what I meant, if not what the text of my previous reply implies or states.
- 10/02/2010 01:52:36 PM
1155 Views
I was wondering this as well.
- 09/02/2010 01:25:09 PM
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We'll try to make sure the next book is even longer than this one was.
- 09/02/2010 01:31:44 PM
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The choice is obvious, then. A la Recherche du Temps Perdu.
*NM*
- 09/02/2010 01:48:15 PM
561 Views
*NM*
- 09/02/2010 01:48:15 PM
561 Views
Oh, that's a good choice. Let's give everyone a week to finish, though.
- 09/02/2010 06:42:59 PM
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I need more time than that...
- 09/02/2010 08:45:03 PM
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Maybe you'll get a special dispensation, but nine is really as much as we can give.
- 09/02/2010 09:30:30 PM
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- 09/02/2010 09:30:30 PM
1152 Views
It would have been ok if I had started as soon as I knew the choice.
- 09/02/2010 02:17:43 PM
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Patience
- 09/02/2010 02:15:14 PM
1100 Views
Is Larry right? Are you ecstatic about the prospect of an independent book club? *NM*
- 10/02/2010 03:18:44 AM
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The intent has always been to encourage people to hold and lead discussions.
- 10/02/2010 04:29:23 PM
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Lol. I figured it was put off for at least a month to let things cool down.
*NM*
- 10/02/2010 12:32:05 AM
601 Views
*NM*
- 10/02/2010 12:32:05 AM
601 Views
How about the три мушкетёра?
- 10/02/2010 05:32:55 AM
1092 Views
Wouldn't that be French?
- 10/02/2010 12:21:50 PM
1157 Views
I nominate The Road by Cormac McCarthy!
- 10/02/2010 04:55:24 PM
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Yeah...uh...I think post this has turned into the inception of the Russian book club. *NM*
- 10/02/2010 05:55:06 PM
508 Views
Lol... I'll be back once we go west again...
*NM*
- 10/02/2010 07:11:53 PM
818 Views
*NM*
- 10/02/2010 07:11:53 PM
818 Views
What do you have against Russian books?
*NM*
- 10/02/2010 08:19:16 PM
546 Views
*NM*
- 10/02/2010 08:19:16 PM
546 Views
I don't have any, and I only nominated The Road because I had read it...
- 10/02/2010 08:33:57 PM
1605 Views
Well I went ahead and ordered Doctor Zhivago and another The Master and Margarita
- 13/02/2010 12:13:15 AM
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