Active Users:692 Time:01/07/2025 10:24:09 AM
Re: I understand Bramhodoulos Send a noteboard - 14/06/2010 05:20:25 PM
When I said peace, I did mean perfect harmony and happiness, not simply a noted lack of conflict and discord. Utilitarian philosophers argue that each person has the inborn ability to discriminate which of the possiblities will create the maximum overall happiness of those given. Their arguments are not how, but rather why it is better to create an overall maximum of happiness. I'm not really sure how I feel about utilitarianism, but right now I tend to agree more with the Rawlsian justice as fairness over other options.

I believe that mankind can achieve a perfect harmony, and I think the fact that we haven't is irrelevent. If your only argument against it is that we haven't, the same argument conservatives have used throughout history, then slavery would still be going on, fuedalism would still be the political order and aristocracy our social system. If conflict is a natural state of humanity then so it slavery, so is fuedalism, so is aristocracy.


I tend to disagree with your analogy to salvery and the like, because despite the desire to have a peacefull world, we are simply never going to give up on selfishness. That is the way we are wired, its in our genes (so to speak). Both from an evolutionary standpoint as well as from a biblical one (for once they agree here :P ). Humans would always choose for themselves and never for someone else and if we do we essentially do so to ease our conscience and boast about it to others.
Slavery is in a sence in our genes as well because we want to dominate others, but the weakness of that was that slavery in itself is something visible and therefor something defeatable (if only in potention). Selfishness is invisible and therefor undefeatable. In a sence it is like weed, it always comes back.

Now you may dream about people who are no longer selfish (and basically I share the same dream), but how? Education? Isn't Amerika one of the best countries in the world when it comes to education? Yet the whole economic crisis is to blame on selfishness of men. Mostly in the USA and other highly educated natoins.
Both world wars were started (I'm over simplifying now) by Germany what was the highest educated country in the world at that time, yet they all became selfish and only cared about their own nation and inside they were still selfish and tried to reach to the top of the ladder.
Not education, what about upbringing. Remember the hippi cults? New Age spiritualism and the like? Remember even idealistic christian movements? They bring up their children and what happens? Clearly not all of them follow the example of their parents. Even many first-generation communities fall apart due to strife, internal competition for power and selfishness (you can read the letters of Paul to the Corinthians in the bible for example where these things happened whitin a few years after they were founded).

My point is not simply "it never has been, ergo it never will be", but it goes much deeper. It is in our nature, in our genes, our bones. We simply are selfish and will never be cured of that disease.

One last remark and that is concerning the nature of your question. You asked "what is justice?", I took that in a neo-neo platonic sence, yet you seem to take it in a pragmatic sence. Is that correct?

Do you believe that christianty is the religion about which you speak here?

If you would define "christianity" as "that what Jesus believed and thought" (and the people who failingly try to live it out), than I would say yes.


I had a followup question... but I sort of forgot it... :P


Once you remember let me know ;)
Reply to message
What is justice? - 13/06/2010 03:39:12 PM 622 Views
"Justice is the constant and perpetual desire to give everyone his due." - 13/06/2010 04:08:26 PM 361 Views
Do you think there is something called justice? - 13/06/2010 10:54:18 PM 430 Views
Well, obviously not with an existence independent of the human mind. - 13/06/2010 11:07:38 PM 301 Views
Cool, I'll look at these... - 13/06/2010 11:12:23 PM 390 Views
Actually, that is being "just" not justice *NM* - 14/06/2010 05:46:06 AM 122 Views
The original reads, "Iustitia est constans et perpetua voluntas ius suum cuique tribuens". - 14/06/2010 01:37:10 PM 338 Views
Obviously it's a present active participle. - 15/06/2010 12:09:54 AM 300 Views
Precisely. As in the well-known Latin phrase iustitio pauperem puerum; nullum corpus me amat. - 15/06/2010 08:54:59 AM 298 Views
Of course! *NM* - 16/06/2010 12:10:25 AM 115 Views
Justice is what the law attempts to achieve - 13/06/2010 04:18:29 PM 291 Views
To me? "Giving to each what is reasonably owed when it's reasonably possible" - 13/06/2010 04:22:41 PM 322 Views
What standard of debt are we to use? - 13/06/2010 10:53:25 PM 447 Views
Any which are fair and reasonable - 14/06/2010 12:27:18 PM 305 Views
Marvel Comics character Vance Astrovik, formerly Marvel Boy. - 13/06/2010 06:26:35 PM 304 Views
A French electronic music duo. - 13/06/2010 08:20:28 PM 288 Views
They aren't that bad. I like "Stress" a lot. *NM* - 14/06/2010 04:42:49 AM 124 Views
An attempt to answer - 13/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 319 Views
You say that the basis of all justice is the law... - 13/06/2010 10:51:13 PM 361 Views
Good question - 13/06/2010 11:05:26 PM 301 Views
I'm an atheist, but stay with me here - 13/06/2010 11:17:10 PM 403 Views
I'm a christian, but stay with me here - 13/06/2010 11:40:48 PM 341 Views
That was moderatly obnoxious - 14/06/2010 12:52:48 AM 412 Views
I understand - 14/06/2010 09:14:24 AM 318 Views
Re: I understand - 14/06/2010 04:32:30 PM 360 Views
Re: I understand - 14/06/2010 05:20:25 PM 323 Views
Just us. *NM* - 14/06/2010 12:17:28 AM 120 Views
Except you. *NM* - 14/06/2010 02:04:09 AM 117 Views
A restoration of the natural order inasmuch as is possible. *NM* - 14/06/2010 04:42:35 AM 120 Views
About $100,000 or the equivalent in local currency *NM* - 14/06/2010 04:50:28 AM 127 Views
Great Question - 14/06/2010 06:16:23 AM 303 Views
I do agree with you, (sort of) - 14/06/2010 04:22:00 PM 370 Views
Re: I do agree with you, (sort of) - 15/06/2010 04:50:04 AM 287 Views
An attempt to create fairness *NM* - 14/06/2010 10:30:40 AM 139 Views
If you are interested in this type of philosophical musing - 14/06/2010 07:03:07 PM 468 Views

Reply to Message