No, Lebanon isn't Syria; my bad. Although Syria's been trying to "fix" that for decades no matter how many bodies it takes, and with Hezbollah in charge now they may have largely accomplished it, at least for the moment; I'll hope you'll excuse me if I don't expect Lebanon to sprout women in bikinis tomorrow or celebrate because Hezbollahs had a majority for a few weeks without imposing Sharia law.
The bottom line is that whether or not anyone wants to admit a religious basis (most of that is just a rallying point for deeply religious people who might not otherwise support militance) DEMOCRACY is at or near the top of "Western" values viewed with such disgust by most of the popular uprisings. Expecting them to PRODUCE democracy is like expecting Robespierre to crown the Pope King of France. The BEST I think we can hope for in most cases is a mostly non-violent theocracy, but since the same groups pushing for theocracies against secular nationalist governments are provincially conservative to the point of condoning and encouraging violence as penalty for transgressing religious laws, even that might be unduly optimistic.
Egypt IS different than the rest of the Mid-East though; one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and a center of culture and learning for millennia, with strong if not always friendly Western ties. It may be that Egyptians as a whole can resist the pull of theocracy, but it will be the exception rather than the rule if so. If the only brutally repressive regimes overthrown in the region wide grass roots democracy drive are pro-Western ones, while equally brutal but anti-Western tyrants in, say, Iran, grow stronger, is it really about democracy or just about expelling the Western influences of which democracy is chief?
The bottom line is that whether or not anyone wants to admit a religious basis (most of that is just a rallying point for deeply religious people who might not otherwise support militance) DEMOCRACY is at or near the top of "Western" values viewed with such disgust by most of the popular uprisings. Expecting them to PRODUCE democracy is like expecting Robespierre to crown the Pope King of France. The BEST I think we can hope for in most cases is a mostly non-violent theocracy, but since the same groups pushing for theocracies against secular nationalist governments are provincially conservative to the point of condoning and encouraging violence as penalty for transgressing religious laws, even that might be unduly optimistic.
Egypt IS different than the rest of the Mid-East though; one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and a center of culture and learning for millennia, with strong if not always friendly Western ties. It may be that Egyptians as a whole can resist the pull of theocracy, but it will be the exception rather than the rule if so. If the only brutally repressive regimes overthrown in the region wide grass roots democracy drive are pro-Western ones, while equally brutal but anti-Western tyrants in, say, Iran, grow stronger, is it really about democracy or just about expelling the Western influences of which democracy is chief?
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 06/02/2011 at 12:20:37 AM
/Media: Guardian's take on funny Americans' take on Egypt
- 03/02/2011 09:32:52 PM
1318 Views
I think you should replace "Fox" by "funny Americans".
- 03/02/2011 09:44:26 PM
925 Views
- 03/02/2011 09:44:26 PM
925 Views
Pfft. Synonyms.
- 03/02/2011 09:46:42 PM
899 Views
Well, you'll get accusations and sour reactions anyway.
- 03/02/2011 09:50:28 PM
773 Views
Re: Well, you'll get accusations and sour reactions anyway.
- 03/02/2011 09:52:20 PM
936 Views
This is true. We'll just have to leave it to Glenn Beck to provide the poetry, now. *NM*
- 03/02/2011 09:54:59 PM
357 Views
Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
- 03/02/2011 09:51:30 PM
818 Views
Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
- 03/02/2011 09:52:56 PM
864 Views
Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
- 03/02/2011 09:56:34 PM
882 Views
That leads to the interesting question of how you define "anti-American".
- 03/02/2011 09:54:13 PM
833 Views
Re: That leads to the interesting question of how you define "anti-American".
- 03/02/2011 10:21:56 PM
900 Views
I think you should replace "funny Americans" with "blowhard pundits who don't deserve time of day" *NM*
- 04/02/2011 12:28:22 AM
344 Views
I posted earlier with observations on how idiotic Fox is sounding generally on the Egypt situation.
- 04/02/2011 02:15:23 AM
1017 Views
I saw Guardian use the phrase balanced coverage and stopped
- 04/02/2011 06:20:31 PM
851 Views
You always do this.
- 05/02/2011 01:28:11 AM
881 Views
It is the irony I find funny
- 07/02/2011 04:03:38 PM
795 Views
That after watching that you think the GUARDIAN'S the one over the top here?
- 08/02/2011 04:02:04 PM
726 Views
sorry the Guardian is shit
- 08/02/2011 04:21:09 PM
848 Views
Maybe, but I'll need evidence; regardless, that's not what this is about, is it?
- 08/02/2011 04:48:06 PM
849 Views
Oh, is Beck a "socialism fan favor[ing] the violent dicator since he can bring order and subsidies"?
- 05/02/2011 08:04:17 AM
1030 Views
So you are saying you have a lot in common with Glen Beck?
- 07/02/2011 04:04:41 PM
963 Views
Not really.
- 08/02/2011 03:46:10 PM
911 Views
it is easy to understand why Beck wants to defend Mubarak
- 08/02/2011 04:23:11 PM
2302 Views
By the Grace of God, Glenn Beck and Alex Jones do not represent America, or even most of the right.
- 05/02/2011 08:30:26 AM
905 Views
Did find this linked article at your link interesting:
- 05/02/2011 09:02:44 AM
1080 Views
Been over all of this before, so I'll just point out that Lebanon is not Syria.
*NM*
- 05/02/2011 07:20:10 PM
420 Views
*NM*
- 05/02/2011 07:20:10 PM
420 Views
Oops....
- 06/02/2011 12:03:27 AM
972 Views
- 06/02/2011 12:03:27 AM
972 Views
Gah. "Someone is wrong on the internet!", and all that, and I can't resist.
- 06/02/2011 12:34:59 AM
979 Views
I know that feeling well.
- 06/02/2011 01:50:41 AM
857 Views
- 06/02/2011 01:50:41 AM
857 Views
America shouldn't take the blame for Fox! That's Rupert Murdoch's, the Aussie's, fault! *NM*
- 06/02/2011 03:16:04 AM
391 Views
