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By giving... its legal definition in the UK! (At least for the purposes of the Equality Act.) Tim Send a noteboard - 16/04/2011 08:51:58 AM
We in the United States at least recognize that race and nationality are two separate things. This is the reason you see words to the effect that discrimination should not be based on "race, religion, color, sex, age, handicap, national origin, veteran status, marital status, pregnancy, maternity, or sexual orientation" (to quote from a standard employment clause).


Obviously they are not exactly the same thing. If we thought they were, that interpretation subsection wouldn't have been necessary at all – it would have just said "race" and expected everyone to take that as including ethnic origin and nationality.

But in reality they overlap to a large extent, and if you're going to have an anti-discrimination law, it's convenient to lump them together. Otherwise you get stupid arguments like "The reason I refused to let that man stay in my hotel wasn't because he's black. It's because I don't serve Nigerians, Ghanaians, Kenyans... it's their nationality I have a problem with". Also, anti-English racism in Scotland (which is a very real problem, possibly worse than against any non-white group here) wouldn't then be covered. Ditto antagonism between Indians and Pakistanis.

Different words are defined differently in different enactments. Basically what they're doing is saving themselves having to type out "racial, ethnic or national origins" every single time it comes up. Since the Act treats all those characteristics in the same way, it makes sense to refer to them with a single term. "Ethnicity" or "national origins" would have done just as well, as long as they were defined equally inclusively. "Race" just has the advantage of being shorter.

Nationality is one's nationality, a legal status. Ask someone to produce a passport and you will have their nationality. This is what makes a Chechen a "Russian" or an Afrikaaner a "South African".

Race is one's race. It is what makes a Chechen NOT a Russian, and an Afrikaaner NOT an "African". It is what makes me European, even though I was born in America, and what makes my friend Asian, even though he was also born in America.

Color is color. It is essentially tied to race these days, since people don't like saying "yellow, red and brown" though black and white are still in common parlance.


Obviously I know all three of these things. My point is that if you're being discriminatory towards people, it doesn't matter which of them is your grounds – all three are equally bad. (I'm going to leave aside immigration issues for now so as not to complicate things.) So we might as well use one name for it.

Now, as for the rest of your comment, I am in complete agreement.


Glad to hear it.
Vigilantibus non dormientibus jura subveniunt.

—Nous disons en allemand : le guerre, le mort, le lune, alors que 'soleil' et 'amour' sont du sexe féminin : la soleil, la amour. La vie est neutre.

—La vie ? Neutre ? C'est très joli, et surtout très logique.
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I have never EVER met kids this horrible Aisha - 15/04/2011 05:14:06 AM 1742 Views
slapping might make him sillier? Sounds like the parents would enjoy that too? *NM* The_Muted_Grimaud - 15/04/2011 05:25:38 AM 434 Views
no the parents dont wanna hear anyhting about their kid Aisha - 15/04/2011 05:30:00 AM 771 Views
Good for you. That's definitely the way to do it. *NM* Tim - 17/04/2011 12:14:30 AM 306 Views
Welcome to children in a world run by liberals. *NM* Urza - 15/04/2011 05:51:46 AM 329 Views
BS *NM* Helene - 15/04/2011 06:24:48 AM 335 Views
I am gonna beat my childrens asses raw if they ever act like that *NM* Aisha - 15/04/2011 06:25:54 AM 313 Views
I'll beat your ass raw, baby. *NM* Urza - 15/04/2011 06:49:09 AM 324 Views
that has nothing to do with it. Aisha - 15/04/2011 06:28:14 AM 792 Views
Sounds dreadful Helene - 15/04/2011 06:27:41 AM 775 Views
you guys have no effing clue Aisha - 15/04/2011 06:32:52 AM 734 Views
That sounds extremely annoying. But less of the racism, if you don't mind. Tim - 15/04/2011 10:11:09 AM 737 Views
they are paki british if it helps *NM* Aisha - 15/04/2011 04:11:39 PM 334 Views
... *NM* Tim - 15/04/2011 04:21:24 PM 321 Views
Re: Pretty much my reaction. Gaps - 15/04/2011 07:26:22 PM 770 Views
"Paki" is used self-referentially in the States without being a slur. Cool your jets. Ghavrel - 15/04/2011 08:07:26 PM 965 Views
Wait, what? ßelals Girl - 15/04/2011 08:12:34 PM 822 Views
SILVER ON THE TREE. Bullies are tormenting a Sikh child on a bridge. Ghavrel - 15/04/2011 08:40:46 PM 673 Views
Ah, must be why I don't remember it ßelals Girl - 16/04/2011 06:23:30 AM 674 Views
The Riders were so freaking awesome/scary. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/04/2011 06:39:35 AM 310 Views
Re: Why would you think that you know it's a slur in the UK, but I wouldn't? Gaps - 15/04/2011 08:47:50 PM 686 Views
I was talking about Aisha, not you. I don't know where you live--I thought you were European. Ghavrel - 15/04/2011 09:51:10 PM 734 Views
Re: Just to point out: Gaps - 16/04/2011 01:28:01 AM 695 Views
Am I the only one who sees a difference in this? Ghavrel - 16/04/2011 01:49:49 AM 840 Views
You are correct. Your interlocutors are stupid. *NM* Dan - 16/04/2011 02:25:56 AM 356 Views
Obviously killing people is worse than calling them names. Tim - 16/04/2011 08:29:22 AM 676 Views
Re: I'm pretty sure it was me... Gaps - 16/04/2011 02:46:57 PM 669 Views
G/J? *NM* Ghavrel - 17/04/2011 01:27:02 AM 331 Views
I think that makes various forms of discrimination less serious. Ghavrel - 17/04/2011 01:28:37 AM 646 Views
39 views? It's been like four minutes! STOP USING INTERNET EXPLORER, PEOPLE. *NM* Ghavrel - 17/04/2011 01:40:45 AM 299 Views
Umm...Not by the Pakistanis in VT Danu - 16/04/2011 11:30:10 PM 640 Views
Interesting. I have not seen that here. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/04/2011 11:50:27 PM 285 Views
Much less than you'd think, given that is considered racist over here in the UK unlike the US. *NM* snoopcester - 15/04/2011 04:26:54 PM 269 Views
Even aside from the use of the word "Paki"... Tim - 15/04/2011 07:36:41 PM 672 Views
Well, they aren't racially British, so "anti-British racism" is by definition inapplicable here. Ghavrel - 15/04/2011 08:04:36 PM 745 Views
... *NM* Rebekah - 15/04/2011 08:23:07 PM 367 Views
New Zealand doesn't count. Ghavrel - 15/04/2011 08:36:58 PM 714 Views
Methinks you have a rather narrow definition of "race". Tim - 15/04/2011 11:14:51 PM 944 Views
I disagree. Ghavrel - 15/04/2011 11:34:44 PM 744 Views
No, you just distorted the word "race" out of all recognition for legal definition purposes. Tom - 16/04/2011 12:39:26 AM 682 Views
Does the existence of a British race even exist by that definition? *NM* Ghavrel - 16/04/2011 01:44:38 AM 283 Views
No, it doesn't. Tom - 16/04/2011 03:25:00 AM 716 Views
By giving... its legal definition in the UK! (At least for the purposes of the Equality Act.) Tim - 16/04/2011 08:51:58 AM 806 Views
Yes, my point was that giving legal definitions was a corruption of common sense. Tom - 16/04/2011 08:26:48 PM 657 Views
It doesn't sound very natural to me to say "OMG you're being nationalityist!" *NM* Tim - 17/04/2011 12:13:41 AM 447 Views
I don't understand why you're so upset about this. rebelaessedai - 16/04/2011 03:34:23 AM 662 Views
I'm not really. Tim - 16/04/2011 08:26:55 AM 760 Views
Bad Tim! rebelaessedai - 16/04/2011 08:36:51 PM 724 Views
Re: You do know you're getting no cookies for this line of discussion. *NM* Danae al'Thor - 17/04/2011 01:31:24 AM 503 Views
My two-year-old knows enough to say "thank you". Tom - 15/04/2011 04:37:23 PM 699 Views
Re: My two-year-old knows enough to say "thank you". Stephen - 15/04/2011 04:59:16 PM 782 Views
Aww your baby sounds adorable! Beqi - 15/04/2011 08:15:22 PM 707 Views
Yeah, thats how I greet friends of the family to *NM* Urza - 16/04/2011 12:07:47 AM 294 Views
Lucky you. Stephen - 15/04/2011 04:40:41 PM 741 Views
The parents seem to be the problem more than the child random thoughts - 15/04/2011 06:15:08 PM 742 Views
Yeah, My kid would also be in trouble if he behaved this way. Beqi - 15/04/2011 08:13:50 PM 674 Views
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