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They were both terrorist attacks. Joel Send a noteboard - 15/05/2011 02:53:51 PM
Not sure what time it was when the bomb went off in Oklahoma City, but I know a daycare was part of the building destroyed; even if it wasn't nap time that doesn't really practically change the statements validity. It's a statistically negligible risk, yes, but the magnitude of that risk increases significantly in people completely oblivious to it.

You are making very little sense. Why are you bringing up a bombing by American gun nuts in a thread about the lack of awareness of Islamic terrorism in American kids? Are you trying to expose your own lack of awareness?

And no, the risk doesn't increase significantly. There just aren't enough terrorism attacks for it to factor in at all.

My concern is about ignorance; "Islamic" is rather irrelevant to me there except insofar as a lot of terrorism is Islamic. In fact, I'd say people are more likely to be ignorant of McVeigh and his ilk than of bin Laden. As for whether there's enough terrorism for awareness of it to reduce vulnerability to it, we'll have to agree to disagree there, but check the list. Not counting Mexican border incidents related to drug cartel warfare ( "significant" enough the State Department issued travel warnings and governors demanded federal aid to protect citizens) there have been an average of 2.5 terrorist incidents/year in the US alone since 2001, and number is significantly higher in many other countries. Of course, terrorism killed thousands of Americans in the US in 2001, and I think you'll be hard pressed to show sugar addiction has killed as many (particularly since the jury's still out on whether such a thing even exists, and I expect no proof).
There's plenty of information available about what's healthy; again, even 20-25 years ago when I was in middle and high school I got it in no less than three different health classes. The epidemic of unhealthy diets despite widely disseminated information on how to eat healthy doesn't exactly undermine my initial assertion that the kids are ignoring information necessary to their continued well being.

Wow... you had information about it in at least 3 health classes! How often have you seen coca cola (pepsi, dr pepper, sprite, etc) commercials? How often have you seen fast food commercials? How often have you seen ice cream commercials?
How many healthy food options are easily available?
Can't you see that this is disproportionately stacked in favor of unhealthy food?

I've seen plenty of commercials for both unhealthy and extremely healthy food; there's a whole industry for the latter based on people who share your views. Peoples preferences are disproportionately stacked in favor of food that's quick, cheap, easy and tasty, usually at the expense of health. The media and food producers don't make people buy those things, and I don't think all the activist American moms denying their kids ANY sugar have had much impact on the nations health.
Sugar addiction sounds a bit sketchy to me, no offense. Psychological dependence, maybe, but people are more likely to be bouncing off the walls when they ARE on sugar than when they're not.

What's sketchy about sugar addiction?

Wikipedias article on the subject states
Sugar addiction is a perceived difficulty controlling intake of sweet foods or beverages. Although the term itself is not generally used to refer to any scientific construct, mounting evidence suggests that under certain conditions, consumption of sweets or sugar may indeed become addiction-like.

Any concept of sugar addiction is complicated by a lack of consensus on the actual definition of addiction....

Some psychologists maintain that results of this type may indeed provide a new way of looking at overeating, but that much caution should be exercised about using them to effectively put sugar in the same category as drugs. They believe there is some overlap between the systems that control food intake and addiction but this cannot yet unambiguously be said to necessarily make certain foods addictive.

Some animals, and some people, may become overly dependent on sweet food, particularly if they periodically stop eating and then binge. This may relate to eating disorders such as bulimia. It would probably be more correct to refer to the laboratory rats referred to above as "sugar-dependent" rather than "addicted. " In general, to be classified as an addiction, reproducible "double blind" experiments would have to show that the experimental subjects exhibited all three elements that make up the definition of this term: a behavioral pattern of increased intake and changes in brain chemistry; then signs of withdrawal and further changes in brain chemistry upon deprivation; and third, signs of craving and relapse after withdrawal is over.

Above emphases mine. The issue of "relapse" is significant here, because the technical term for a human who ingests no sugar directly or otherwise is "corpse". It is sketchy, to say the least; while psychological dependence is "addiction-like", if it were addiction we wouldn't need the suffix.
If you are used to having sugar in everything, your body will expect sugar in everything. When it's no longer there, your body will crave the sugar, because it's used to getting it. Metabolism works with homeostasis, i.e. it wants to retain the levels it's used to.
And how is bouncing off walls or not related to it being or not being an addition? Btw, there's no scientific proof that sugar makes people bounce off walls.

Metabolism "works" with SUGAR. It is the one and only means by which our cells obtain energy; the whole reason we respire is to provide oxygen for our cells to metabolize sugar to get energy. I'm really not interested in getting into the specious "sugar is a toxin" debate, but as someone who's spent a FAIR amount of time in America as a child and adult, I can assure you that discussion is as much a part of public discourse as it is anywhere else. "Bouncing off the walls" was a reference to the anxiety and physical discomfort common in addicts experiencing withdrawal. There may be no scientific proof sugar literally makes people bounce off walls, but there's plenty of scientific proof excess sugar leads to excess energy that, among other things, typically produces excessive activity. Psychological dependence on ANYTHING is possible, of course; that's what OCD is. It's not an addiction except by the loosest and most generous definition. I've known a LOT of addicts over the years, and sugar addiction seems at least as ridiculous to me as you find the notion that someone ignorant of terrorism directed at them increases their vulnerability to it.
If there are sugar addicts out there, they have my sincere pity, because they're gonna remain "powerless over their addiction" quite literally till the day they die.

You have a weird definition of addiction.

One of us certainly does.
Yes, sweet things are enjoyable; it's one of natures little ways of making us want something we need to survive. Yes, lots of people consume far more than they should, but "sugar addiction" and research seeking to prove it sounds more like an excuse for overindulging in something we need without having to take responsibility for that fact.

No, it's about ensuring that sugar stops being added to everything.

Sugar isn't "added to everything". Apples don't have added sugar. Water doesn't have added sugar. Most bread doesn't have added sugar (though an addict would eat it anyway because it has a LOT of starch they can easily convert to sugar). If you're that worried about the issue, tackling it as "sugar is added to everything" is counterproductive. The problem is FAR more complex, involving far greater factors like:

People in industrialized countries have less time and money to obtain, prepare and consume healthy food, consequently encouraginges them to eat quick, easy, cheap and unhealthy food.

In America a variety of agricultural subsidies (primarily to large corporate farms who don't need them) exacerbate that problem by artificially lowering prices on unhealthy food, thereby creating market incentives to consume more of it.

Wealthy industrialized nations have more people who can and do consume food (among other things... ) excessively.

Jobs and recreation in such countries are increasingly sedentary, and eating candy while playing Super Mario burns less calories than sandlot football.

Boiling all that down to "there's too much added sugar" is rather missing the point; it may be convenient if one indulges the conceit that all Americans are fat, stupid and lazy, but in that case see my earlier statement on counterproductivity. That's not to say I disagree with reducing the amount of added sugar (especially artificial sugar, e.g. the infamous HFCS) but by itself it's simply treating a symptom. Regardless, just because people decline to use any self control doesn't make them addicts; the whole basis of addiction is that self control is no longer a relevant issue.
Then I would say you're not very far aware on how US home schooling is done then, and that the phrase "religious fanatic" is sometimes thrown about too loosely.

I'm admittedly not very aware of home schooling in the US. But nearly everything I've read about home schooling in the US has been done by religious fanatics. I may throw this around too loosely for your comfort, so I'll explain my definition: people who home school their children so as to avoid the children coming into contact with view points other than their own religious doctrine.

Ah, well, in that case, no problem; all states have curriculum standards home schools must meet just like conventional schools do. Setting aside cases where kids are home schooled because their parents lack confidence in traditional schols (with some justification), even parents who home school because they don't want their kids to accept, say, evolution, are still required to ensure their kids are VERY familiar with the concept as represented by science. Again, if your primary concern is the kids' education, checking standardized test scores might make you an ADVOCATE of home schooling where possible. It's amazing how much more development a childs education can receive when they're one of three rather than thirty. Partly for the reason you stated, I happen to support traditional schools, particularly public ones, and despair of the extent to which America often neglects them. However, I see nothing wrong with home schooling; I just don't think kids whose parents don't have that option should be doomed to a life of ignorance.
As to your other point, social interaction needn't be confined to school, and social growth will almost certainly be stunted if it is. If schools don't provide a quality education, should a parent who can sacrifice that to add to the social interaction their child should be getting outside of school anyway?

You mean, within the church?

No, I don't, or I would have said so; it's certainly one of the many options, but the sandlot football game would be more appropriate (they can even use a spherical ball if you find that less offensive). When did this stop being about knowledge of terrorism and become about what's wrong with your caricature of America? Can we agree that such derogatory and inaccurate assumptions are beneath us both, or should I indulge a few as well?
As to the rest 1. I didn't say a womans place is in the home (though it certainly CAN be, and a woman without the CHOICE is equally unfree whatever path is forced upon her), I said the people who argue that most forcefully have done the most to make it untenable.

I think that it's a luxury to be able to expect that one person in a household can just stay at home, not earning an income. For most people in the world, this is not an option. In case it's possible, though, why should only the woman have this amount of freedom to choose? Are women supposed to be more free than men these days?

Heh, it often seems that way, but, no, it should be a family decision since it impacts the whole family; if they decide the man should be the stay at home parent, that's equally legitimate whether it's conventional or not. Single income households ARE a luxury now--but were the norm in America until about a generation ago. That's why I said it's ironic that the same people most opposed to working mothers are the very ones whose economic policies have made it vital for mothers to work. I think most kids would benefit from a parent whose primary activity was raising them, but busting unions, gutting public education and ensuring girls with no access to abortion drop out of high school to raise kids by themselves doesn't foster that goal.
2. Having a baby doesn't automatically make anyone a skillful teacher, but if the professional teachers and educational system is woefully inadequate only a foolish woman would rely on them for her childs education if she could take charge of it herself.

What? So she should be an inadequate teacher herself instead? A lot of people aren't all that bright, you do realize that, don't you?

Yes, I do, but if the choice is between kids being taught by an inadequate parent or an inadequate teacher adequacy is off the table. In that case I'd probably pick the one who already has an established bond with the child and a strong interest in the kids current and future well being. I know which one has the greatest incentive to alleviate their inadequacy for the benefit of the child.
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This message last edited by Joel on 15/05/2011 at 02:56:47 PM
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OK, Once and for All, WTF Is WRONG with Kids Today? - 04/05/2011 01:28:52 AM 1527 Views
Cool story bro. *NM* - 04/05/2011 01:35:29 AM 453 Views
Clearly not. - 04/05/2011 02:16:08 AM 939 Views
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The SEALS won. - 04/05/2011 02:17:41 AM 787 Views
They read Boing Boing. *NM* - 04/05/2011 01:57:17 AM 524 Views
And use Yahoo, apparently. - 04/05/2011 02:20:36 AM 987 Views
I guess I have a pretty bright Child. and a good school district. - 04/05/2011 04:28:24 AM 835 Views
Hopefully, and presumably respectable parenting skills. - 06/05/2011 01:32:02 AM 1022 Views
You really have to wonder if our culture is decadent? *NM* - 04/05/2011 06:24:25 AM 470 Views
Not at all, but it does make me wonder if we're TOO decadent. - 06/05/2011 01:38:42 AM 856 Views
I agree. *NM* - 09/05/2011 10:36:40 PM 558 Views
How is it the kids' fault that they are not taught (to care) about recent history? *NM* - 04/05/2011 06:54:16 AM 451 Views
I just asked my son, and he said he was a boss of a criminal organisation who was responsible for - 04/05/2011 06:56:18 AM 812 Views
Good enough for me, thanks. - 06/05/2011 01:59:40 AM 848 Views
Yes and no, but I'd think an international network trying to kill you would motivate self education. - 06/05/2011 01:57:06 AM 946 Views
Good teachers don't allow overeager students to monopolize the classroom. - 06/05/2011 02:52:27 AM 959 Views
We covered the material. - 06/05/2011 02:57:52 AM 974 Views
Which means... not a good teacher. - 06/05/2011 07:02:44 AM 767 Views
Good luck with that. - 06/05/2011 11:51:48 PM 874 Views
If they don't know about the terrorist organisation to begin with, why would they self educate? - 13/05/2011 08:06:07 AM 835 Views
If completely ignorant of terrorism itself, they wouldn't, but if not I'd expect they'd get informed - 14/05/2011 03:01:37 AM 811 Views
What?!? There are terrorists roaming the US, killing kids in their beds?!? - 14/05/2011 07:45:27 AM 951 Views
They're certainly trying. - 14/05/2011 10:43:48 AM 863 Views
Oklahoma city bombing was by American citizens, completely unrelated to Al Qaeda... - 15/05/2011 08:02:11 AM 1055 Views
They were both terrorist attacks. - 15/05/2011 02:53:51 PM 962 Views
Obesity is a much bigger killer than terrorists - 15/05/2011 04:01:51 PM 831 Views
Sure, but obesity covers a lot of ground. - 15/05/2011 04:19:51 PM 843 Views
Obesity is a new problem - 15/05/2011 06:09:33 PM 851 Views
only about a third of the home schooled kids are home schooled for religious reasons - 16/05/2011 09:35:36 PM 928 Views
Fair enough... I can imagine wanting to avoid a crappy school. - 17/05/2011 06:04:11 PM 838 Views
getting your kid in the right school can be a challenge - 17/05/2011 06:18:04 PM 732 Views
how many times have i told you "it's the internet, it's not real life"?? *NM* - 04/05/2011 07:43:01 AM 485 Views
Sure, but in this case they intersect. - 06/05/2011 02:02:19 AM 896 Views
I met a lady who didn't know who Justin Bieber was. I told her I was very impressed - 04/05/2011 06:49:49 PM 903 Views
You should be? - 06/05/2011 02:09:47 AM 937 Views
He may have been dreaming about killing them but he was actually doing anything *NM* - 06/05/2011 03:09:49 AM 512 Views
The short answer is "yes". - 06/05/2011 03:19:31 AM 823 Views
you would of have had to know who he is to know he was doing that though *NM* - 08/05/2011 06:16:39 PM 433 Views
Yes, and the fact he WAS doing that is why I expected nearly everyone to know who he was. - 08/05/2011 07:12:41 PM 840 Views
I am not saying they shouldn't know who he is just that is isn't that shocking that some don't - 09/05/2011 02:35:02 PM 716 Views
I get that, it's the size of the "some" that kinda floors me. - 09/05/2011 05:02:46 PM 831 Views
Rumsfeld was a bit of a tool but he was right about a lot of stuff - 09/05/2011 05:05:56 PM 780 Views
I did think he took heat unfairly for that comment; he's an interesting figure. - 09/05/2011 05:59:58 PM 940 Views
see that is why political comedy isn't really comedy - 10/05/2011 02:15:48 PM 789 Views
He was a college offensive lineman. - 12/05/2011 01:47:52 AM 873 Views
It was the media tqaking offense not just internet nutjobs - 13/05/2011 04:16:34 AM 949 Views
You're "the media" now? - 13/05/2011 10:27:42 PM 930 Views
you live in a fantasy world *NM* - 16/05/2011 02:27:20 PM 443 Views
Not a rebuttal. - 16/05/2011 09:10:33 PM 845 Views
I am trying to be more concise and that summed it up *NM* - 16/05/2011 09:26:32 PM 449 Views
Concise is nice, but that response was solely about me rather than my arguments. - 18/05/2011 11:30:38 PM 815 Views
No it was about your reply I am just to lazy to break it down - 19/05/2011 12:54:38 AM 751 Views
"You live in a fantasy world" is 100% about me. - 19/05/2011 01:53:07 AM 649 Views
OK *NM* - 19/05/2011 03:15:04 PM 402 Views
Check. - 20/05/2011 12:08:24 AM 1115 Views
13-17 year olds. - 05/05/2011 01:51:27 AM 1026 Views
Call me crazy, but I tend to notice people who want to kill me when they've shown the ability. - 06/05/2011 02:53:26 AM 862 Views
Re: Call me crazy, but I tend to notice people who want to kill me when they've shown the ability. - 06/05/2011 09:21:10 PM 896 Views
As I asked below, did you click the link? - 06/05/2011 11:35:45 PM 727 Views
Re: As I asked below, did you click the link? - 09/05/2011 05:37:29 AM 761 Views
And yet you found a way; full marks for effort. - 09/05/2011 07:50:32 AM 1034 Views
Thanks for the mis-analogizing. - 10/05/2011 06:26:40 AM 1214 Views
Not a mis-analogy, but perhaps ambiguous. - 10/05/2011 07:02:31 AM 824 Views
Re: Not a mis-analogy, but perhaps ambiguous. - 10/05/2011 04:58:59 PM 870 Views
Re: Not a mis-analogy, but perhaps ambiguous. - 12/05/2011 01:22:38 AM 810 Views
Re: 13-17 year olds. - 06/05/2011 09:14:47 PM 845 Views
What are you doing to earn a living now? *NM* - 05/05/2011 03:04:28 AM 463 Views
Jeg øver norsk, men ikke mer nå. - 06/05/2011 02:54:44 AM 816 Views
Debt collection is kind - 06/05/2011 07:16:53 AM 799 Views
Just don't repeatedly say you're seriously buying tickets to come kill them. - 06/05/2011 11:40:51 PM 755 Views
Theres a reason you're banned from skype chat. Dont be a cunt - 07/05/2011 02:22:30 AM 813 Views
it must be a very good reason if they haven't banned you as well - 09/05/2011 05:09:07 PM 801 Views
And that is your analysis? Really. Kids sure are dumb to ask questions and do research. - 06/05/2011 10:15:41 PM 759 Views
I wish there were an applause smiley. - 06/05/2011 11:02:01 PM 824 Views
I don't think the article says much of anything at all. - 07/05/2011 03:28:35 AM 720 Views
Maybe; I don't always appreciate deadpan jokes online.... - 07/05/2011 03:43:51 AM 909 Views
I think the linguistic conventions governing search engines and typical conversation differ is all. - 07/05/2011 04:00:38 AM 791 Views
Hopefully that's all it is. - 07/05/2011 04:17:21 AM 781 Views
actually, search engines are getting better towards "questions" now - 11/05/2011 11:06:42 PM 741 Views
Fair enough then, if surprising; objection withdrawn. - 12/05/2011 01:17:28 AM 897 Views
I think you're reading too much into this - 10/05/2011 12:58:20 AM 856 Views
Possibly; I really hope so. - 10/05/2011 04:01:50 AM 759 Views
Re: Possibly; I really hope so. - 10/05/2011 05:18:43 AM 851 Views
Again, fair enough. - 12/05/2011 01:52:07 AM 806 Views
Re: Again, fair enough. - 12/05/2011 02:04:53 AM 840 Views
Acknowledged. - 12/05/2011 02:41:38 AM 815 Views
HA! - 12/05/2011 10:50:50 PM 1022 Views

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