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Re: Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. Camilla Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 11:51:22 AM
This is something that started bugging me after a random association yesterday. John the Baptist. On whose authority was he baptising people? No one had died for people's sins yet. From what I understand baptism functions in connection with that. Have I misunderstood something?

And why did Jesus need to be baptised?

I am genuinely curious about the doctrinal reasoning here. It has been a while since I studied these things and for the life of me I cannot remember anything about it. I know that there were several Jewish groups that practised baptism at the time, but I do not know the intra-Christian reasoning for this event.

You may be aware that, according to Matthew, John the Baptist himself raised the precise question you have: Why did Jesus need to be baptized? The short answer is that He didn't, but that He chose to do so as He chose to many thing to provide a righteous model for His subsequent followers. Baptism initiates the commitment to Christianity that many denominations complete with confirmation. That it IS a commitment is why many Christian denominations (most famously the Baptists) don't condone infant baptism; IMHO, it suffers the dual liabilities of being both presumptuous and pointless, no more meaningful than taking a national oath of allegiance on behalf of ones infant child. Baptism's predicated on repentance of sin and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior from it, but it's not like those who do those things yet never have the opportunity for baptism are denied salvation. Christ told one of the thieves crucified beside Him he would be with Him in paradise, and I'm pretty sure no one baptized him in the interim. ;)

As far as Johns authority to baptize, it comes in two parts: First, ritual purification by washing is part of Jewish tradition at least as far back as Moses (IIRC washing before every meal is part of the Torah for reasons more obvious now than they were then). Additionally, Johns particular commission to baptize was in anticipation and on behalf of the Messiah Whose coming he preached; in essence, he baptized people for both their present repentance and future faith in a Savior not yet revealed, but imminent.

EDIT: Y'know, displaying this thread in a paged format could have saved me the trouble of making this post (which reiterates points various knowledgeable people had already made) and let me go straight to the more narrowly focused ones I made elsewhere (without the need to make three posts instead of one). Not a criticism, just an observation. ;)


Yes. I was interested in seeing different arguments for it, though; more of the same is therefore also useful in that it points to a sort of consensus.

And the same could have been achieved by clicking on the posts above before posting.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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A question on baptism - 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM 952 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection. - 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM 698 Views
What I meant - 10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM 539 Views
I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM 517 Views
Re: I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM 609 Views
I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM 543 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM 502 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM 537 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM 481 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM 541 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM 511 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM 655 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM 512 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM 714 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM 717 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM 520 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM 544 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:33:01 PM 411 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:34:36 PM 477 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM 604 Views
Re: I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:54:17 AM 666 Views
He dances and dips in The Ganges- Very Nice. *NM* - 11/06/2011 02:15:41 AM 228 Views
Three dips - that's the ceremony. - 11/06/2011 02:35:43 AM 471 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity - 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM 642 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason - 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM 581 Views
I misunderstood, lets try again - 10/06/2011 01:44:43 PM 667 Views
Huh. *NM* - 10/06/2011 02:06:58 PM 269 Views
A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM 709 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:15:07 PM 695 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:19:25 PM 607 Views
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one? - 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM 681 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical - 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM 549 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water - 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM 640 Views
That is absurd. - 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM 731 Views
It is absurd - 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM 547 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move. - 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM 662 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water" - 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM 495 Views
The point is that it's a symbol. - 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM 518 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol - 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM 593 Views
You are totally missing the point. - 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM 672 Views
Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense - 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM 634 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion - 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM 897 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean" - 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM 534 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical. - 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM 586 Views
Shrug. It was on topic. - 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM 859 Views
Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM 713 Views
Re: Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 11:51:22 AM 711 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM 250 Views
Because we are all nuts in our own special ways? *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:36:03 PM 217 Views

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