I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
In some religions. Not psychologically so, but literally. As in, if you touch this pig/blood/woman, you are actually, spiritually unclean. It's not a state of mind, it's spiritual cause and effect. Logic.*
Christianity, for the most part, doesn't have much of that (of course, that's not counting those creepy little reliquaries filled with the knucklebones of saints, but I digress).
Most of the time, Christianity is simply about belief, without any sort of magical accessories. So, a woman who was praying for her sick child on her knees in a closet would be no less likely to have her prayers answered than if she was doing it holding a diamond-studded crucifix, surrounded by scented oils. As long as the belief is there, you're good.
The issue I had with holy water is that, despite whatever justifications people come up with, it is basically treated as "magic water." If you touch it, you are blessed. If you use it in your baptism, that's better than regular water. It can be used to ward off attacks from demons (I'm not being facetious, the idea that holy water can ward off evil is definitely a part of the perception of holy water, even if it's not one that comes up often during a sermon).
But it's not ABOUT THAT. It is entirely psychological. It's placebo. It's feel-good.
And that would be fine, if that's how it was treated. However, when a priest blesses water, he's not thinking "Ah, I'll wave my hands over this water, that'll make the flock feel better." No, he's thinking "Oh Lord, please bless this water."
Holy water is treated as magical water, even though we all seem to be in consensus that it is, at best, a symbol. That's what bugs me about holy water.
*I'll take a moment here to talk about using logic to talk about religion. At first it sounds absurd, but if you approach it the same way you talk about logic in, say, Wheel of Time (or any other fantasy novel, for that matter), it works out pretty well. Both religions and fantasy books have their own internal logic that their world follows. Both are always unable to get it right 100% of the time, so there are always going to be some inconsistencies. That shouldn't stop people from enjoying the Dresden Files/the Bible, but I hope it does stop people from always assuming every single word put down is, heh, gospel.
(An added bonus is that it really irritates a certain type of person when you compare their holy book to the Dresden Files)
Christianity, for the most part, doesn't have much of that (of course, that's not counting those creepy little reliquaries filled with the knucklebones of saints, but I digress).
Most of the time, Christianity is simply about belief, without any sort of magical accessories. So, a woman who was praying for her sick child on her knees in a closet would be no less likely to have her prayers answered than if she was doing it holding a diamond-studded crucifix, surrounded by scented oils. As long as the belief is there, you're good.
The issue I had with holy water is that, despite whatever justifications people come up with, it is basically treated as "magic water." If you touch it, you are blessed. If you use it in your baptism, that's better than regular water. It can be used to ward off attacks from demons (I'm not being facetious, the idea that holy water can ward off evil is definitely a part of the perception of holy water, even if it's not one that comes up often during a sermon).
But it's not ABOUT THAT. It is entirely psychological. It's placebo. It's feel-good.
And that would be fine, if that's how it was treated. However, when a priest blesses water, he's not thinking "Ah, I'll wave my hands over this water, that'll make the flock feel better." No, he's thinking "Oh Lord, please bless this water."
Holy water is treated as magical water, even though we all seem to be in consensus that it is, at best, a symbol. That's what bugs me about holy water.
*I'll take a moment here to talk about using logic to talk about religion. At first it sounds absurd, but if you approach it the same way you talk about logic in, say, Wheel of Time (or any other fantasy novel, for that matter), it works out pretty well. Both religions and fantasy books have their own internal logic that their world follows. Both are always unable to get it right 100% of the time, so there are always going to be some inconsistencies. That shouldn't stop people from enjoying the Dresden Files/the Bible, but I hope it does stop people from always assuming every single word put down is, heh, gospel.
(An added bonus is that it really irritates a certain type of person when you compare their holy book to the Dresden Files)
I amuse myself.
A question on baptism
- 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
985 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
- 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
745 Views
What I meant
- 10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
576 Views
I don't follow.
- 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
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Re: I don't follow.
- 10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
640 Views
I don't keep up with RC theology much.
- 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
578 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
- 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
537 Views
They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
- 11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
642 Views
Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
- 11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
564 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
576 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
514 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
576 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
545 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
703 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
542 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
750 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
553 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
578 Views
Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
- 11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
630 Views
Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
- 11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
712 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges
- 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
651 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
- 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
675 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
- 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
620 Views
A first responce
- 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
748 Views
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
- 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
728 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
- 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
581 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
- 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
669 Views
That is absurd.
- 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
763 Views
It is absurd
- 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
586 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
- 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
693 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
- 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
549 Views
The point is that it's a symbol.
- 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
554 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol
- 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
631 Views
You are totally missing the point.
- 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
710 Views
Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
- 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
687 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
- 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
940 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
- 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
576 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
- 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
625 Views
Shrug. It was on topic.
- 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
890 Views
The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
- 11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
244 Views
Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
- 10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
589 Views
Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
- 11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
575 Views
You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
- 12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
513 Views
I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
- 12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
554 Views
No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
- 13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
242 Views
All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
- 11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
220 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site
*NM*
- 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
262 Views
*NM*
- 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
262 Views

