Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
Darth_Katie Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
They are in the Catholic tradition, anyway, which is the only one I have enough knowledge about to talk about.
Of course you have to be in the right frame of mind. If a hobo wanders into a church off the street and takes a bath in the baptismal font, he is not anymore blessed than if he had gone to the homeless shelter and took a shower. In that sense its not "magic water." But it does have power in the sense that it has be specially designated as set aside for use in religious ceremonies as a reminder of baptism and the cleansing power of God. As such, holy water is a potent prayer aid and "prepare[s] us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. ... Sacramentals are sacred signs instituted by the Church. They prepare men to receive the fruit of the sacraments and sanctify different circumstances of life."* The fruit of the Sacraments is Grace, and the the Grace of God is really what drives out demons or heals the sick or what have you.
If you really care, check out the section about sacramentals in the Catechism. Catholicism is all about consistent internal logic. That's what theology is for. I mean, this is the religion with canon lawyers, for goodness sake.
* The quote is from the link, btw.
Honestly, I don't see why you're picking holy water out to have a problem with. In the grand scheme of religion, its a small thing ...
The issue I had with holy water is that, despite whatever justifications people come up with, it is basically treated as "magic water." If you touch it, you are blessed. If you use it in your baptism, that's better than regular water. It can be used to ward off attacks from demons (I'm not being facetious, the idea that holy water can ward off evil is definitely a part of the perception of holy water, even if it's not one that comes up often during a sermon).
Of course you have to be in the right frame of mind. If a hobo wanders into a church off the street and takes a bath in the baptismal font, he is not anymore blessed than if he had gone to the homeless shelter and took a shower. In that sense its not "magic water." But it does have power in the sense that it has be specially designated as set aside for use in religious ceremonies as a reminder of baptism and the cleansing power of God. As such, holy water is a potent prayer aid and "prepare[s] us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. ... Sacramentals are sacred signs instituted by the Church. They prepare men to receive the fruit of the sacraments and sanctify different circumstances of life."* The fruit of the Sacraments is Grace, and the the Grace of God is really what drives out demons or heals the sick or what have you.
If you really care, check out the section about sacramentals in the Catechism. Catholicism is all about consistent internal logic. That's what theology is for. I mean, this is the religion with canon lawyers, for goodness sake.
* The quote is from the link, btw.
Honestly, I don't see why you're picking holy water out to have a problem with. In the grand scheme of religion, its a small thing ...
Insert theme music here.
A question on baptism
- 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
967 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
- 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
712 Views
What I meant
- 10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
556 Views
I don't follow.
- 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
535 Views
Re: I don't follow.
- 10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
626 Views
I don't keep up with RC theology much.
- 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
561 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
- 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
522 Views
They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
- 11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
622 Views
Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
- 11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
548 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
556 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
498 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
559 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
525 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
674 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
527 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
734 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
730 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
536 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
559 Views
Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
- 11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
613 Views
Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
- 11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
694 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges
- 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
625 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
- 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
660 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
- 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
597 Views
A first responce
- 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
726 Views
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
- 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
697 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
- 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
567 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
- 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
653 Views
That is absurd.
- 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
747 Views
It is absurd
- 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
565 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
- 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
677 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
- 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
519 Views
The point is that it's a symbol.
- 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
537 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol
- 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
604 Views
You are totally missing the point.
- 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
690 Views
Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
- 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
653 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
- 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
924 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
- 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
548 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
- 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
604 Views
Shrug. It was on topic.
- 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
873 Views
The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
- 11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
237 Views
Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
- 10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
572 Views
Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
- 11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
556 Views
You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
- 12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
499 Views
I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
- 12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
534 Views
No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
- 13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
234 Views
All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
- 11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
212 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site 
*NM*
- 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
254 Views
*NM*
- 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
254 Views