Debt Ceiling Debacle: Are Republican Leaders Spinelessly Selfish, or Cluelessly Selfish?
Joel Send a noteboard - 14/07/2011 04:57:30 PM
It looks like the former. Speaker Boehners publicly said, "Nobody wants to go there [credit default] because nobody knows what's going to happen" but he's taking us there anyway. Senate Minority Leader McConnell told Doctor Laura that, "[Democrats] want to blame the economy on us. The reason that default is no better an idea today than when Newt Gingrich tried it in 1995 is that it destroys your brand and would give the president an opportunity to blame us for the bad economy... We refuse to let him entice us in to co-ownership of a bad economy." Yet he's going to burn down the brand anyway simply to ensure Obama gets all the blame.
Lemme see if I understand the situation:
Republican say the federal debt is unsustainable, and simply raising the debt ceiling so we can keep spending will only make the problem worse. That's emphatically and undeniably true, perhaps the last such statement Republican leaders made since negotiations began. The GOP demanded spending cuts match any deficit increase, so Vice President Biden began talks with them that found $2 trillion in potential cuts. Obama proposed closing tax loopholes to bring total deficit reduction to $4 trillion. Republicans walked away, drawing heavy scorn from even their own fiscal conservative pundits (David Brooks wrote a particularly scathing indictment on Independence Day). Subsequently, Minority Leader McConnell (after saying Dems want to blame Republicans for the recession and that he won't let Obama "entice us in to co-ownership of a bad economy" ) offered Obama complete borrowing discretion that only a two-thirds vote could override. In other words, McConnell abandoned ALL GOP deficit reduction attempts AND surrendered to the President budgetary authority the Constitution clearly reserves to Congress, solely to blame Obama if the economy doesn't improve in the next year and a half. Never mind that there's no way in hell the House would pass a bill like that (I doubt the Senate would). Apparently keeping the lowest taxes in half a century is more important than cutting the deficit (the deficit didn't matter six months ago when Republicans demanded they keep the decade old Bush tax cuts), and scapegoating Obama is more important than cutting spending.
That second part may be hard. According to the latest Gallup poll, "Americans' preferences for deficit reduction clearly favor spending cuts to tax increases, but most Americans favor a mix of the two approaches. Twenty percent favor an approach that relies only on spending cuts and 4% favor an approach that uses tax increases alone. " Put another way, 76% of America wants spending cuts AND tax increases, so GOP leaders are not only at odds with Democrats, but voters. And voters know it, according to the latest Quinnipiac poll, which found that:
Perhaps most significantly, "American voters disapprove 56 - 38 percent of the way President Barack Obama is handling the economy, but by 45 - 38 percent they trust the president more than congressional Republicans to handle the economy, " leading one of its assistant directors to opine, "The American people aren't very happy about their leaders, but President Barack Obama is viewed as the best of the worst, especially when it comes to the economy". In other words, the conventional wisdom holds; Obama will retain the Presidency the same way Romney will be nominated for it: By default, because all alternatives are so much worse. Thus leading fiscally conservative Republicans say, "Republicans are not fit to govern".
Short form: GOP leaders are sacrificing America to fill their pockets with money an economic collapse will ruin. And the public knows it.
Lemme see if I understand the situation:
Republican say the federal debt is unsustainable, and simply raising the debt ceiling so we can keep spending will only make the problem worse. That's emphatically and undeniably true, perhaps the last such statement Republican leaders made since negotiations began. The GOP demanded spending cuts match any deficit increase, so Vice President Biden began talks with them that found $2 trillion in potential cuts. Obama proposed closing tax loopholes to bring total deficit reduction to $4 trillion. Republicans walked away, drawing heavy scorn from even their own fiscal conservative pundits (David Brooks wrote a particularly scathing indictment on Independence Day). Subsequently, Minority Leader McConnell (after saying Dems want to blame Republicans for the recession and that he won't let Obama "entice us in to co-ownership of a bad economy" ) offered Obama complete borrowing discretion that only a two-thirds vote could override. In other words, McConnell abandoned ALL GOP deficit reduction attempts AND surrendered to the President budgetary authority the Constitution clearly reserves to Congress, solely to blame Obama if the economy doesn't improve in the next year and a half. Never mind that there's no way in hell the House would pass a bill like that (I doubt the Senate would). Apparently keeping the lowest taxes in half a century is more important than cutting the deficit (the deficit didn't matter six months ago when Republicans demanded they keep the decade old Bush tax cuts), and scapegoating Obama is more important than cutting spending.
That second part may be hard. According to the latest Gallup poll, "Americans' preferences for deficit reduction clearly favor spending cuts to tax increases, but most Americans favor a mix of the two approaches. Twenty percent favor an approach that relies only on spending cuts and 4% favor an approach that uses tax increases alone. " Put another way, 76% of America wants spending cuts AND tax increases, so GOP leaders are not only at odds with Democrats, but voters. And voters know it, according to the latest Quinnipiac poll, which found that:
Voters will blame Republicans over Obama 48 - 34 percent if the debt limit is not raised;
Voters say 67 - 25 percent that an agreement to raise the debt ceiling should include tax hikes for the wealthy and corporations, not just spending cuts;
Voters say 45 - 37 percent that Obama's proposals to raise revenues are "closing loopholes," rather than "tax hikes";
But voters say 57 - 30 percent that Obama's proposals will impact the middle class, not just the wealthy.
Voters say 67 - 25 percent that an agreement to raise the debt ceiling should include tax hikes for the wealthy and corporations, not just spending cuts;
Voters say 45 - 37 percent that Obama's proposals to raise revenues are "closing loopholes," rather than "tax hikes";
But voters say 57 - 30 percent that Obama's proposals will impact the middle class, not just the wealthy.
Perhaps most significantly, "American voters disapprove 56 - 38 percent of the way President Barack Obama is handling the economy, but by 45 - 38 percent they trust the president more than congressional Republicans to handle the economy, " leading one of its assistant directors to opine, "The American people aren't very happy about their leaders, but President Barack Obama is viewed as the best of the worst, especially when it comes to the economy". In other words, the conventional wisdom holds; Obama will retain the Presidency the same way Romney will be nominated for it: By default, because all alternatives are so much worse. Thus leading fiscally conservative Republicans say, "Republicans are not fit to govern".
Short form: GOP leaders are sacrificing America to fill their pockets with money an economic collapse will ruin. And the public knows it.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 14/07/2011 at 05:14:51 PM
Debt Ceiling Debacle: Are Republican Leaders Spinelessly Selfish, or Cluelessly Selfish?
14/07/2011 04:57:30 PM
- 910 Views
funny how people only believe polls that say what they want to hear
14/07/2011 06:08:21 PM
- 453 Views
Actually, I believe the polls regularly showing Romney ahead of Obama now.
14/07/2011 09:30:01 PM
- 636 Views
watch out you almost made rational argument there
15/07/2011 02:47:02 PM
- 501 Views
Watch out, you completely ignored my arguments there.
15/07/2011 04:20:44 PM
- 614 Views
Didn't Obama sign the tax cuts we are operating under now? He deserves some credit for that
15/07/2011 07:16:14 PM
- 597 Views
Actually, I agree; granting the Republicans demands does make him partly culpable.
15/07/2011 09:33:50 PM
- 516 Views
I have yet to hear anything about any actual proposal
14/07/2011 06:23:16 PM
- 460 Views
I think you have to be there to get a detailed spreadsheet, but the general terms are known.
14/07/2011 08:36:39 PM
- 694 Views
Your entire response is lacking actual answers.
15/07/2011 03:42:04 AM
- 646 Views
There were answers, just very general ones; the specifics aren't being publicly released.
15/07/2011 04:19:47 AM
- 587 Views
That kind of headline doesn't really help, you know?
14/07/2011 06:33:43 PM
- 548 Views
I second this. Definitely need less antagonism *NM*
14/07/2011 07:36:54 PM
- 195 Views
I admit I too readily meet antagonism with antagonism these days.
14/07/2011 09:56:45 PM
- 401 Views
"I have no idea what we're talking about, but my opinion is important anyway!"
14/07/2011 09:03:10 PM
- 559 Views
just because you believe the silly rhetoric doens't mean it isn't rhetoric *NM*
14/07/2011 09:27:08 PM
- 169 Views
I can't think of anything else to call it.
14/07/2011 09:17:42 PM
- 596 Views
I just think that you could have said all that in a much more less antagonistic way.
14/07/2011 10:16:49 PM
- 567 Views
I do see your point, but it often takes a shock for people to question reflexive views.
14/07/2011 10:53:07 PM
- 541 Views
it is selfish to demand tax increases to allow needed spending reductions *NM*
15/07/2011 02:48:11 PM
- 319 Views
It's shamefully selfish to demand others sacrifice their existence for your luxury.
15/07/2011 04:14:04 PM
- 425 Views
that woulkd be shameful thank god it isnothing but rhetoric *NM*
15/07/2011 07:17:44 PM
- 200 Views
It's the simple sad truth.
15/07/2011 09:36:34 PM
- 360 Views
so if it was your family you'd only cut expenses and not find a way to make extra income?
15/07/2011 07:45:21 PM
- 461 Views
if you think silly comparison to family budget are valid then you need to ask yourself that question *NM*
17/07/2011 06:51:06 PM
- 183 Views
And you haven't even gotten into the cries for a "balanced budget amendment."
14/07/2011 09:17:04 PM
- 406 Views
I think they're doing exactly what the people who paid to put them into office are expecting them to
14/07/2011 09:23:45 PM
- 440 Views
Sadly, that's so, I just keep expecting them to put the countrys survival ahead of greed.
14/07/2011 09:38:14 PM
- 633 Views
You know, if I pretended like I didn't have a family to support, I'd say, "Fuck it. Default."
15/07/2011 03:50:30 AM
- 414 Views
Maybe you can't be that cavalier, but the House majority clearly can.
15/07/2011 04:56:03 AM
- 611 Views
these are the same tax increases that were extended by the dems
15/07/2011 02:49:35 PM
- 453 Views
EDIT: Wait, I get it now; you're just trolling me.
15/07/2011 04:14:00 PM
- 698 Views

no I am just pointing out simple facts but your partisan blinders refuse to allow you to see them
15/07/2011 07:22:03 PM
- 492 Views
Republicans didn't just "support" tax cuts: They demanded them then and won't relinquish them now.
15/07/2011 09:58:37 PM
- 626 Views
Did the Mitch McConnel thing remind anyone else of Jar Jar Binks appearing before the Senate...
15/07/2011 07:38:52 AM
- 512 Views
It probably would have if I didn't do everything I could to avoid thinking of Jar Jar Binks *NM*
15/07/2011 11:20:09 AM
- 214 Views
Clueless only in the sense that they aren't heeding the signals of their owners.
17/07/2011 06:46:42 AM
- 659 Views
Coaches have to do things fans dislike to win games, or get fired anyway when they lose.
17/07/2011 04:11:38 PM
- 655 Views