Active Users:877 Time:05/07/2025 10:04:54 AM
Maybe you can't be that cavalier, but the House majority clearly can. Joel Send a noteboard - 15/07/2011 04:56:03 AM
Hence my subject line.
I'd grab onto my balls and say "Fuck that bastard Obama and let the US default".

I can't be that cavalier, though, because I have a family.

That bastard Obama didn't put us in this situation, and he's the only one who's offered any concessions to mitigate the problem. He's pushing for a $4 trillion deficit reduction while Republicans insist on $2 trillion to preserve decades of tax breaks. That's the bottom line: That bastard Obama has repeatedly offered deficit reduction deals, gotten Reid and Pelosi to accept Social Security and Medicare cuts, and Republicans have walked away every time because he wanted a tax increase as well. After he's already agreed to nearly $2 trillion in entitlement cuts, they're holding out for a half trillion more rather than accept tax increases to reduce the deficit by four times that. He's offered a many concessions and they've offered nothing: That's not a negotiation or a compromise, it's an ultimatum, and it's no surprise the public is bolting as it watches House Republicans hold the nations financial existence hostage to it.

And to be perfectly honest, suggesting we either scrap Medicare or impoverish doctors while eliminating their liability for injuring or killing patients doesn't jibe with concern for ones family. You're worried about protecting wealth if the dollar collapses; people who've paid into Medicare and Social Security for 30 years are worried about SURVIVING when they're too old and sick to work and can't afford to pay $1200 PER MONTH for health insurance. That's the number the company who said five years ago they'd insure my mother quoted; the others said they wouldn't cover her at all (and even that one said they wouldn't cover her after 65). Bearing in mind that the wonderful new healthcare bill only says they can't decline people (without restricting how much they charge), how do you suggest a 70 year old with no Social Security or Medicare come up with a few hundred thousand a year for health insurance (never mind things like deductibles and copays)?

Raise taxes AND cut spending; any other deficit reduction talk is just talk. Guess who's trying to get a $4 trillion deficit reduction deal that raises taxes and cuts spending. And guess who's demanding we cut the deficit half that much so they can tell their base they didn't raise taxes. Obama's offering deals and the Republicans are walking away; I fail to see how that's Obamas fault. From the Pew Center, again via Wikipedia:
The Pew Center reported in April 2011 the cause of a $12.7 trillion shift in the debt situation, from a 2001 CBO forecast of a cumulative $2.3 trillion surplus by 2011 versus the estimated $10.4 trillion public debt we actually face in 2011. The major drivers were:
Revenue declines due to the recession, separate from the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003: 28%
Defense spending increases: 15%
Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003: 13%
Increases in net interest: 11%
Other non-defense spending: 10%
Other tax cuts: 8%
Obama Stimulus: 6%
Medicare Part D: 2%
Other reasons: 7%

Gee, what changed in 2001? And if you say 911 changed our 2011 finanical situation from a $2.3 trillion SURPLUS to a $10.4 trillion DEBT I'll know you just refuse to be objective. The decade old Bush tax cuts alone, the ones Republicans ignored the deficit and demanded we extend six months ago, have had TWICE the effect on the deficit as the much maligned Obama stimulus.

Obama could've shown a lot more leadership on this (but what else is new), but there's a limit to how much I can blame him for not doing more to force Republicans to compromise instead of insisting they get all their demands in exchange for NOTHING or they'll implode the economy.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Debt Ceiling Debacle: Are Republican Leaders Spinelessly Selfish, or Cluelessly Selfish? - 14/07/2011 04:57:30 PM 911 Views
funny how people only believe polls that say what they want to hear - 14/07/2011 06:08:21 PM 453 Views
That kind of headline doesn't really help, you know? - 14/07/2011 06:33:43 PM 548 Views
I second this. Definitely need less antagonism *NM* - 14/07/2011 07:36:54 PM 195 Views
"I have no idea what we're talking about, but my opinion is important anyway!" - 14/07/2011 09:03:10 PM 559 Views
just because you believe the silly rhetoric doens't mean it isn't rhetoric *NM* - 14/07/2011 09:27:08 PM 169 Views
Rhetoric can be right or wrong, but it's still rhetoric. *NM* - 14/07/2011 09:56:32 PM 280 Views
I can't think of anything else to call it. - 14/07/2011 09:17:42 PM 596 Views
I just think that you could have said all that in a much more less antagonistic way. - 14/07/2011 10:16:49 PM 567 Views
I do see your point, but it often takes a shock for people to question reflexive views. - 14/07/2011 10:53:07 PM 541 Views
there's a difference between shock and antagonism - 14/07/2011 11:43:20 PM 440 Views
Fair enough. - 15/07/2011 12:27:44 AM 611 Views
it is selfish to demand tax increases to allow needed spending reductions *NM* - 15/07/2011 02:48:11 PM 319 Views
It's shamefully selfish to demand others sacrifice their existence for your luxury. - 15/07/2011 04:14:04 PM 425 Views
that woulkd be shameful thank god it isnothing but rhetoric *NM* - 15/07/2011 07:17:44 PM 200 Views
It's the simple sad truth. - 15/07/2011 09:36:34 PM 360 Views
so defalting for tax increases is OK? - 18/07/2011 04:28:34 PM 433 Views
No, tax increases to PREVENT a default is OK. - 18/07/2011 06:36:15 PM 527 Views
And you haven't even gotten into the cries for a "balanced budget amendment." - 14/07/2011 09:17:04 PM 406 Views
I think they're doing exactly what the people who paid to put them into office are expecting them to - 14/07/2011 09:23:45 PM 440 Views
Sadly, that's so, I just keep expecting them to put the countrys survival ahead of greed. - 14/07/2011 09:38:14 PM 633 Views
You know, if I pretended like I didn't have a family to support, I'd say, "Fuck it. Default." - 15/07/2011 03:50:30 AM 415 Views
Maybe you can't be that cavalier, but the House majority clearly can. - 15/07/2011 04:56:03 AM 613 Views
these are the same tax increases that were extended by the dems - 15/07/2011 02:49:35 PM 455 Views
EDIT: Wait, I get it now; you're just trolling me. - 15/07/2011 04:14:00 PM 698 Views
no I am just pointing out simple facts but your partisan blinders refuse to allow you to see them - 15/07/2011 07:22:03 PM 492 Views
Republicans didn't just "support" tax cuts: They demanded them then and won't relinquish them now. - 15/07/2011 09:58:37 PM 628 Views
Obama signed it and the dems passed it - 18/07/2011 04:29:50 PM 442 Views
Correct, and precisely the point. - 18/07/2011 06:36:09 PM 442 Views
Did the Mitch McConnel thing remind anyone else of Jar Jar Binks appearing before the Senate... - 15/07/2011 07:38:52 AM 512 Views
It probably would have if I didn't do everything I could to avoid thinking of Jar Jar Binks *NM* - 15/07/2011 11:20:09 AM 214 Views
Well said. *NM* - 15/07/2011 01:46:46 PM 201 Views
Pretty much everyone in the Tea Party, I think. - 15/07/2011 04:45:08 PM 453 Views
obama needs to learn when to STFU sometimes - 15/07/2011 08:14:29 PM 485 Views
And make policy. - 15/07/2011 10:08:50 PM 600 Views
Clueless only in the sense that they aren't heeding the signals of their owners. - 17/07/2011 06:46:42 AM 659 Views
Coaches have to do things fans dislike to win games, or get fired anyway when they lose. - 17/07/2011 04:11:38 PM 655 Views
Here's to hoping I'm wrong. - 18/07/2011 08:46:13 AM 597 Views
I was all set to argue, then I read the other new responses. - 18/07/2011 06:36:05 PM 597 Views

Reply to Message