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For the record, I found Vancouver quite lovely. Joel Send a noteboard - 31/08/2011 05:09:37 PM
It struck me as a warmer version of Norway, a comparison noted by my "aunt-in-law" and her husband, which is significant support since she's from here and she's from there (I wound up meeting them for the first time in Norway and the second time a week later in Vancouver).

Density can make a big difference though, no doubt, and it tends to depend on how you measure. For example, rt mentioned DFW; by incorporated area, Dallas barely makes the top ten (9th); it's only third largest IN TEXAS (Houston is 4th and San Antonio 7th). On the other hand, by metropolitan area Dallas is 4th and Houston drops to 6th (surprisingly, the difference is <500,000 yet still leaves room for Philly between them), while San Antonio drops to 25th. You can also go by combined statistical area, in which case DC and Boston, two cities that barely make the top 25 in the first list and the top ten in the second, shoot up to 4th and 5th, while DFW drops back to 7th and Houston to 9th. You COULD even go by the list of megaregions, and then the Great Lakes (including Chicago, but also places like Detroit, Milwaukee, Minnesota-St. Paul and Minneapolis, just off the top of my head) is on top, followed by the Boston to DC area (it says something about how many people live in the Midwest that there are LESS people in the combined area of the 1st, 4th and 5th largest combined statistical areas). For the immediate future I'm still a little leery of that one though because it's still rather speculative, emergent and in some ways simply messed up badly. Everything rom Cascadia down is "mega" only in the geographic sense, and Houston manages to be in both the Gulf Coast AND Texas Triangle megaregion, suggesting those are really a single megaregion centered around Houston and slightly larger than Southern CA (though still dwarfed by the Great Lakes and Northeast).

For my money metro's the way to go, because all major cities inevitably have a multitude of smaller surrounding, nominally independent, cities and towns reduced to mere extensions of the core metropolis. Sometimes they even exist WITHIN the larger cities from which their governments (but little else). Bellaire is completely surrounded by Houston; Arlington, the 50th largest US city by incorporated area, is undoubtedly a part of the metropolitan area formed by Dallas to the east and Fort Worth to the west. Depends on your metric, and with 20,000,000 in the NYC metro area pretty much every US city but L.A. and Chicago likely seems dinky to Tom. ;)
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This message last edited by Joel on 31/08/2011 at 05:10:08 PM
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The world's top ten and worst ten most livable cities - 30/08/2011 07:06:50 PM 1359 Views
How do you call towns "cities"? - 30/08/2011 08:12:27 PM 634 Views
I thought you were going to mention Perth. The rest are clearly cities, if you ask me. - 30/08/2011 08:23:33 PM 621 Views
Perth has 1.7 million people. - 30/08/2011 08:30:26 PM 778 Views
You kind of inadvertently prove the point... - 30/08/2011 09:21:18 PM 845 Views
So I see! - 30/08/2011 09:45:27 PM 872 Views
A million people isn't a city? - 30/08/2011 08:28:20 PM 786 Views
Not necessarily. - 30/08/2011 10:49:08 PM 752 Views
You could be right re: population density. - 30/08/2011 11:06:36 PM 697 Views
Re: Not necessarily. - 30/08/2011 11:56:20 PM 694 Views
He's spoilt by living in New York - 31/08/2011 01:26:02 AM 829 Views
That probably is part of it. - 31/08/2011 02:14:41 AM 638 Views
to meet their definition of best it also seems to help if you have mostly white - 31/08/2011 01:52:11 PM 644 Views
Have you been to Toronto or Vancouver ? - 31/08/2011 04:02:01 PM 658 Views
no but I have the internet and they meet the ethnic description I gave - 31/08/2011 05:25:40 PM 763 Views
Yeah, I'm sorry, but you're fairly off with that one. - 31/08/2011 04:52:25 PM 711 Views
OK you did see where I included Asians didn't you and I would call less than 2% significant - 31/08/2011 05:31:45 PM 706 Views
I believe your words ... - 31/08/2011 05:49:26 PM 681 Views
yeah sprinkling was probably an understatement - 31/08/2011 07:36:16 PM 902 Views
As a comparison ... - 30/08/2011 08:37:28 PM 808 Views
that can be a little misleading - 30/08/2011 09:18:22 PM 743 Views
Point taken. - 30/08/2011 09:49:54 PM 811 Views
Not enough Europe, apparently - 30/08/2011 08:13:48 PM 703 Views
Re: Europe - 30/08/2011 09:32:17 PM 726 Views
Interesting - 30/08/2011 09:59:27 PM 870 Views
but everything tries to kill you in Oz - 30/08/2011 08:41:51 PM 671 Views
That's what keeps you fit and healthy. *NM* - 30/08/2011 09:17:32 PM 360 Views
weather is a factor and three Canadian cities made the top ten? - 30/08/2011 09:22:32 PM 775 Views
Vancouver at least has a nice climate. - 30/08/2011 09:40:31 PM 902 Views
yeah there are not vey many US cities I would want to raise kids in - 30/08/2011 11:16:52 PM 613 Views
For the record, I found Vancouver quite lovely. - 31/08/2011 05:09:37 PM 848 Views
Quality health care in the US, really? - 31/08/2011 12:27:41 AM 727 Views
seriously... - 31/08/2011 05:24:47 AM 678 Views
all you are arguing is quality=free - 31/08/2011 12:11:30 PM 686 Views
Also, - 31/08/2011 12:53:00 PM 761 Views
no it works out that nicely for most people - 31/08/2011 01:36:13 PM 713 Views
How can he afford a week in Vail and not afford insurance? - 31/08/2011 04:22:47 PM 715 Views
a lot of the uninsured are that way from choice - 31/08/2011 06:41:42 PM 642 Views
Livability obviously doesn't include "Concentration of Venomous Creatures". *NM* - 30/08/2011 11:43:43 PM 370 Views
Actually, the reason our cities are so liveable is because they're built to keep said creatures out - 31/08/2011 12:59:01 AM 632 Views
How? - 31/08/2011 08:20:01 AM 614 Views
Why no Boston? *NM* - 31/08/2011 12:16:28 AM 356 Views
A low population density seems to be a key determinant in these rankings - 31/08/2011 12:51:45 AM 596 Views
There is an obvious mistake - 31/08/2011 03:07:31 AM 897 Views
I was almost killed by a wombat - 31/08/2011 05:26:28 AM 591 Views
you should print that on a tee shirt and sell it - 31/08/2011 09:11:18 PM 611 Views

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