I'm treating this like a survey even though you didn't make it one: It's about a relationship.
Joel Send a noteboard - 12/09/2011 11:23:45 PM
I remember coming up with this argument in college, and then becoming apathetic because no one could come up with a good response and yelled at me anyway.
So, is there an actual answer? (Or rather, are there any official answers according to various churches?)
So, is there an actual answer? (Or rather, are there any official answers according to various churches?)
Or lack of one, as the case may be; my thoughts echo Dannys in that respect. Yes, there's a Divine Plan, in which each of us has an important predestined role; that said, there's also free will, which allows each of us to opt out of the role created for us (and for which we were created). Ideally, we have a cooperative relationship with God, where we work in concert with (but always subordinate to) Him toward mutually desired goals. To that extent prayer is very important and can take many forms; prayers for things that directly conflict with the Divine Plan will not be granted, but things in accordance with the Divine Plan and directly beneficial to an individual personally won't simply be dropped in his lap: He'll usually have to work AND pray for them. Darth Katie mentioned the parable of the unrighteous judge, which I tend to think of in terms of ranagrandes answer: The difference between a prayer for a momentary whim and a strong desire or even need is often the difference between asking God for something once and asking Him for it several times a day for years.
The bottom line, IMHO, is that several things are necessary for a prayer request to be granted:
1) You have to pray for it (obviously), usually for an extended period.
2) It has to be in accordance with and submission to Gods will.
3) It has to be made with faith, both that God will hear and answer the prayer, and His ability and will to do so in the way best for you.
4) It usually has to be in the context of a larger general cooperation and submission to God.
In the last case, that's not to say God won't take pity on an unrepentant sinner lost at sea, but when He does it seems more an act of pure compassion than an answered prayer for rescue. Maybe I'm taking David a bit too literally, and maybe he got some mental scars from the episode with Bathsheba, but one point to which he returns repeatedly in the Psalms is that the prayer of an unrighteous man is basically pausing while spitting on God to ask Him a favor, and gets the kind of response you'd expect. Selfish prayers and/or those only made when someone wants something come very close to that, too. Again, prayer is by nature part of a cooperative relationship with God, and the quality of the one is directly linked to the quality of the other. Consequently, in much the way Vivien suggested, when ones relationship with God is strong He often grants prayers by providing the means to achieve ones requests (which, ultimately, He does with all "our" achievements whether we realize it or not, and part of a healthy relationship with God is gratefully acknowledging that in prayer. )
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 12/09/2011 at 11:26:08 PM
I figured I'd put RAFO's top religiologists on the case
08/09/2011 02:03:55 PM
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well I am not religious but that seems a bit of a strawman argument
08/09/2011 05:01:57 PM
- 319 Views
Hm, so there's a broad Divine Plan, but it doesn't matter either way who wins the Super Bowl?
08/09/2011 05:25:23 PM
- 312 Views
Your argument only works if you get to decide who and what god is, like I said strawman
08/09/2011 06:32:17 PM
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I don't know that I'm a "top religiologist", but here goes:
08/09/2011 05:35:26 PM
- 411 Views
I can totally do this.
08/09/2011 06:57:19 PM
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Believe it or not, this is a thought I had when I was little and christian.
08/09/2011 07:39:24 PM
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Predestination is something only strict Calvinists believe.
08/09/2011 08:53:59 PM
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Didn't mean to bring up predestination.
08/09/2011 09:17:19 PM
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Sorry. That's how I read it...
09/09/2011 12:48:07 AM
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I think that looking for an absolute answer re: religion is pretty silly.
08/09/2011 08:22:16 PM
- 273 Views
That's a tough one...
09/09/2011 01:27:25 PM
- 272 Views
I'm treating this like a survey even though you didn't make it one: It's about a relationship.
12/09/2011 11:23:45 PM
- 320 Views