Active Users:279 Time:14/05/2024 05:58:55 PM
I'm treating this like a survey even though you didn't make it one: It's about a relationship. Joel Send a noteboard - 12/09/2011 11:23:45 PM
I remember coming up with this argument in college, and then becoming apathetic because no one could come up with a good response and yelled at me anyway.

So, is there an actual answer? (Or rather, are there any official answers according to various churches?)

Or lack of one, as the case may be; my thoughts echo Dannys in that respect. Yes, there's a Divine Plan, in which each of us has an important predestined role; that said, there's also free will, which allows each of us to opt out of the role created for us (and for which we were created). Ideally, we have a cooperative relationship with God, where we work in concert with (but always subordinate to) Him toward mutually desired goals. To that extent prayer is very important and can take many forms; prayers for things that directly conflict with the Divine Plan will not be granted, but things in accordance with the Divine Plan and directly beneficial to an individual personally won't simply be dropped in his lap: He'll usually have to work AND pray for them. Darth Katie mentioned the parable of the unrighteous judge, which I tend to think of in terms of ranagrandes answer: The difference between a prayer for a momentary whim and a strong desire or even need is often the difference between asking God for something once and asking Him for it several times a day for years.

The bottom line, IMHO, is that several things are necessary for a prayer request to be granted:

1) You have to pray for it (obviously), usually for an extended period.

2) It has to be in accordance with and submission to Gods will.

3) It has to be made with faith, both that God will hear and answer the prayer, and His ability and will to do so in the way best for you.

4) It usually has to be in the context of a larger general cooperation and submission to God.

In the last case, that's not to say God won't take pity on an unrepentant sinner lost at sea, but when He does it seems more an act of pure compassion than an answered prayer for rescue. Maybe I'm taking David a bit too literally, and maybe he got some mental scars from the episode with Bathsheba, but one point to which he returns repeatedly in the Psalms is that the prayer of an unrighteous man is basically pausing while spitting on God to ask Him a favor, and gets the kind of response you'd expect. Selfish prayers and/or those only made when someone wants something come very close to that, too. Again, prayer is by nature part of a cooperative relationship with God, and the quality of the one is directly linked to the quality of the other. Consequently, in much the way Vivien suggested, when ones relationship with God is strong He often grants prayers by providing the means to achieve ones requests (which, ultimately, He does with all "our" achievements whether we realize it or not, and part of a healthy relationship with God is gratefully acknowledging that in prayer. )
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 12/09/2011 at 11:26:08 PM
Reply to message
I figured I'd put RAFO's top religiologists on the case - 08/09/2011 02:03:55 PM 652 Views
The real answer is there is no effect because God is not real. - 08/09/2011 02:23:00 PM 298 Views
Right, I was working from that presumption - 08/09/2011 03:32:31 PM 294 Views
Re: Talking puppies! And kittens! I want! *NM* - 08/09/2011 03:34:49 PM 138 Views
well I am not religious but that seems a bit of a strawman argument - 08/09/2011 05:01:57 PM 319 Views
I don't know that I'm a "top religiologist", but here goes: - 08/09/2011 05:35:26 PM 411 Views
Re: I don't know that I'm a "top religiologist", but here goes: - 08/09/2011 05:53:36 PM 274 Views
Re: I don't know that I'm a "top religiologist", but here goes: - 08/09/2011 06:35:55 PM 344 Views
Oooh, can I be a top religiologist? - 08/09/2011 06:52:18 PM 415 Views
I can totally do this. - 08/09/2011 06:57:19 PM 313 Views
Believe it or not, this is a thought I had when I was little and christian. - 08/09/2011 07:39:24 PM 305 Views
Predestination is something only strict Calvinists believe. - 08/09/2011 08:53:59 PM 274 Views
Didn't mean to bring up predestination. - 08/09/2011 09:17:19 PM 301 Views
Sorry. That's how I read it... - 09/09/2011 12:48:07 AM 361 Views
It's not a risk you can refuse... - 09/09/2011 06:04:44 AM 288 Views
Many choices in life are risky. - 09/09/2011 03:15:49 PM 264 Views
It's a very silly argument that the T Rex is making. - 08/09/2011 07:22:23 PM 279 Views
I think that looking for an absolute answer re: religion is pretty silly. - 08/09/2011 08:22:16 PM 273 Views
wrong place *NM* - 09/09/2011 05:00:52 AM 113 Views
Prayer is not a request line. - 09/09/2011 05:03:10 AM 406 Views
That's a tough one... - 09/09/2011 01:27:25 PM 272 Views
That's part of the charm. - 09/09/2011 08:50:05 PM 259 Views
Re: That's part of the charm. - 13/09/2011 12:08:45 AM 351 Views
I'm treating this like a survey even though you didn't make it one: It's about a relationship. - 12/09/2011 11:23:45 PM 320 Views

Reply to Message